Sign off problem

[JohnW2]

I suppose but again its so vastly unlikely and I suspect just an urban myth...BCO's are not a law unto themselves, you have the right of appeal and having had it with foundations and drains its not at all tedious or fraught.. ....

It would seem that, at least in relation to electrical matters, it can sometimes be far more "tedious and fraught" than most people would regard as 'being worth the effort'.

One of the issues is that the BCOs themselves very rarely have any electrical expertise (or necessarily expertise in other fields about which they may be deliberating), so they can tend to play things by what they regard as "the book" - which (on the basis of what we see here) will often demand compliance with 'guidance' given in Approved Documents, even when it can be argued (if one has enough inclination and stamina!) that one has satisfied the actual requirement of the Building Regs themselves.

A seemingly common, albeit fairly trivial, example of this is a BCO's demand that mechanical ventilator fans are fitted (as suggested by Approved Doc F), whereas all that Part F of the Building Regs actually requires is that "there should be adequate ventilation provided for people in the building". In such a 'trivial' case, I think most people would probably 'give in' to this demand and fit the fan(s), rather than expend time and effort in attempting to challenge the demand.

Kind Regards, John

 

[martygturner]

It would seem that, at least in relation to electrical matters, it can sometimes be far more "tedious and fraught" than most people would regard as 'being worth the effort'.

One of the issues is that the BCOs themselves very rarely have any electrical expertise (or necessarily expertise in other fields about which they may be deliberating), so they can tend to play things by what they regard as "the book" - which (on the basis of what we see here) will often demand compliance with 'guidance' given in Approved Documents, even when it can be argued (if one has enough inclination and stamina!) that one has satisfied the actual requirement of the Building Regs themselves.

I am sorry but what ?...they outsource it and there ends the BCO's input... its not fraught at all....Hi I don't have an electrical design and fit...ok it will need an inspection....that's it. As you have pointed out BCO's never say they have the expertise because to have the expertise they would need to have a relevant qualification to inspect...which they don't.

All a BCO wants is clarity that anything they are unsure of has an second opinion that removes the risk from them, as for being jobsworths that actually is their job.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As you have pointed out BCO's never say they have the expertise because to have the expertise they would need to have a relevant qualification to inspect...which they don't.

NO qualifications are required to inspect - carry out an EICR - anyone is allowed to do it.

BCO just want someone else to accept responsibility.

 

[JohnW2]

I am sorry but what ?...they outsource it and there ends the BCO's input...

Not necessarily. In an example such as I cited, if a BCO is obsessed with the need for 'compliance' with the guidelines in Approved Doc F, he/she will not see any need to 'outsource' (or get advice about) anything - but will merely to continue to 'demand' that the fans are fitted.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I had the fan bit, I said window opens, and he replied but visitors to house could walk past the open window, easier to fit fan than argue.

It was switched off when he left, and not really used again, mainly as it would draw in cold air from hall.

You really want it triggured as you leave the room, for set time, not as you enter the room.

It seems they have a time limit, so if not inspected in time, you can continue, however not sure about insurance? The inspector missed lintel only supported one side, the wet room door had been moved a foot but not the lintel, spotted and corrected, but not sure what would have been the result if not spotted.

In general not much to go wrong with electrics, unless some one is trying to pull a fast one. But I did see on a building site the garage supply was 2.5 mm in the house and 6 mm across the garden, things like that so easy to miss when doing an upgrade.

If you use meters on a regular basis you get a feel for expected results, you look at the distance and think that will be well within, or that will be on the edge.

So when I saw the paperwork for my house, I commented, that's a very low loop impedance for size of house, and the house buyers report said there was a disused fuse box in the false ceiling, but still did not twig that the EIC was only for 1/3 of the house.

Only realised when I turned off all the power, and all was still working. But in general the CU with all RCBO's will stop any faults causing a danger, yes there are exceptions, I have found live cables where all should be dead, but not very often.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Hi, I’ve recently had an extension built but parted company with the builder before it was finished, the first fix electrical work has been done but I need the second fix completed before I can get it signed off, I’m getting ridiculous prices from electricians to do this!! Am I right in thinking that someone with some electrical knowledge could do this and then I pay the going rate for an electrical inspection certificate from a qualified electrician, would this certificate be the 7671 required by BC. Thanks

Was your builder/electrician working from plans and specifications? Any pics of walls after 1st fix and before finishes applied?
You can't now get an installation certificate because no-one is available to certify the system design.
If you have some electrical knowledge you could create a cable schematic (by proving what goes where- multimeter and long test lead for end to end checks), then connect items (sockets, switches etc) then get your EICR (cheaper than buying or hiring the appropriate test gear).

 

[ericmark]

If you have some electrical knowledge you could create a cable schematic (by proving what goes where- multimeter and long test lead for end to end checks), then connect items (sockets, switches etc) then get your EICR (cheaper than buying or hiring the appropriate test gear).

Think you have missed the point, what is wanted is a completion certificate, to get that the LABC needs to satisfy themselves it is safe. And only they can say what they want to satisfy themselves it is safe.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Think you have missed the point, what is wanted is a completion certificate, to get that the LABC needs to satisfy themselves it is safe. And only they can say what they want to satisfy themselves it is safe.

True, and yes you're quite right, OP needs to have a chat with BCO and see what they want. In similar circs up here they've been happy with an EICR and new CU install documents but as someone said different BCOs have different hobbyhorse they like to ride

 

[JohnW2]

Think you have missed the point, what is wanted is a completion certificate, to get that the LABC needs to satisfy themselves it is safe. And only they can say what they want to satisfy themselves it is safe.

Yes, but as I said early on, if, for whatever reason, paperwork from the person who did the work is not available, then, regardless of what the BCO would like to be given, it will either have to be an EICR or nothing

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

True, and yes you're quite right, OP needs to have a chat with BCO and see what they want. In similar circs up here they've been happy with an EICR and new CU install documents but as someone said different BCOs have different hobbyhorse they like to ride

Indeed, but my responde is exactly the same as what I';ve just written to eric, namely .... "Yes, but as I said early on, if, for whatever reason, paperwork from the person who did the work is not available, then, regardless of what the BCO would like to be given, it will either have to be an EICR or nothing "

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

Apparently at least one Electrician on here used a "three signature" EIC with only the "inspection and testing" box signed and the BCO accepted that.

 

[JohnW2]

Apparently at least one Electrician on here used a "three signature" EIC with only the "inspection and testing" box signed and the BCO accepted that.

Interesting - I don't remember that. However, such a cert would effectively be a ('limited') 'EICR', so I might have expected that the BCO would also have accepted something actually 'called' an EICR?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

What ever the document, the BCO has to commission it, or at least say either who should do it, or what qualifications he wants the writer to have.

He wanted to give me a list of those who's signature he would accept.

Last think anyone wants is to pay for an EICR and the BCO to say I want it to be done by some one on this list.

 

[JohnW2]

What ever the document, the BCO has to commission it, or at least say either who should do it, or what qualifications he wants the writer to have. He wanted to give me a list of those who's signature he would accept. Last think anyone wants is to pay for an EICR and the BCO to say I want it to be done by some one on this list.

Agreed. Unless one is prepared to contemplate the hassle of doing otherwise, I think one has to accept that BCOs are essentially 'laws unto themselves', and therefore ask them what they will accept before doing anything.

One daft thing is that, at least in my experience if one gives them the EIC that is what they 'really want', they don't seem to ask any questions about the person who has done the work and signed the EIC! I think it is nearly all about Mr Jobsworth wanting to be able to 'tick boxes'.

kind Regards, John

 

[conny]

Surely if a BCO says he/she, (must stay politically correct ), wants the test done by one of the people on this list AFTER you have had it done by an independent, that should raise suspicions of 'malpractice', shall we say?
If I was put in that position I would refuse and go above his/her head to management and let them know what had happened. If they doubt the qualifications of the tester you employed, they should seek clarification from his scheme. If he is up to standard, then they must surely have a duty to accept his certificate?