Sink/washing machine/dishwasher still gurgling !

[Nige F]

Right, I think the noises are from pressure not vacuum build up in the drain that's why the aav made no difference - it only lets air in - If you lift the lid of the manhole in the garden, then run water in the sink and there is no gurgle in the w/m pipes. And vice versa that will verify the theory. Can you identify where the drain run goes to from the manhole away from the house. Also can you see a vent pipe up a wall or through the roof of the house.?

 

[worcesterman47]

I will try removing manhole cover and run the washing machine layer.the drain run just continues down the garden (down a slope) if I have understood your question correctly.and having thought about the problem in depth I realised that when the washing machine and dishwasher were disconnected totally from all pipework (due to kitchen renovations) there was NO gurgling at all from the kitchen sink...and yes there is a vent pipe coming out of the roof of my house.

 

[worcesterman47]

as per post above...I have now removed manhole cover and ran the washing machine , when washing machine empty the gurgling is from the sink (approx 12ft away)....then when I empty a bowl of water into the sink the gurgling is over by the washing machine pipework.i checked the pipes under the manhole cover in the garden and washing machine water and sink water are running freely...I enclose a pic of pipes under manhole cover in garden...its the middle pipe on the left...if that helps.

 

[Nige F]

Thanks for the pic. So from what you have described the w/m and the sink must be connected together before they run into the manhole. There must not be a problem with the drain going from the manhole (possible part blockage further down) because with the manhole lid off ie. vented there to free air, the gurgling still occurs. Now when the drain from manhole to house was cctv'd and found clear I am surmising the camera went past the w/m connection. Basically all things have been eliminated now except for the "leg" of drain from the w/m and dishwasher. Sorry it's been a bit of a marathon Q+A, but now you can direct your, or the contractor's attention to that leg of drain from where the wastes go into the floor. You may find there is a trap in the drain (look down the pipe in the floor and see if there is standing water, just the same as a sink trap) or it might just be a bend. If you can get the machines out and access the drain in the floor you could then hold a plastic bag (inflated or opened up) as close as possible to the rim of the drain so that when the sink is run you may be able to discern air movement in the drain (in or out) As you have said, the problem has been for about 1 year out of 8 I feel there may have been a long term build up of sludge from the w/m and dishwasher in that leg of drain to where it joins the sink drain. I would suggest jetting the w/m drain from inside the house ( and observing the manhole in the garden ) as the start point for the contractor, whose price seems reasonable.

 

[worcesterman47]

With all the help/advice from you guys I too now feel that the problem does indeed lie within the pipework from the washing machine area ..the plastic bag idea is an excellent one to try...also to try to view inside the pipe to see if indeed there is standing water...I will give those ideas a go as soon as is practicable....I also agree now that the sink and washing machine pipework are connecting somewhere closely to the washing machine pipework and as you suggested and I mentioned previously I will check them out as soon as I am able to ...many thanks for your advice

 

[worcesterman47]

Hi guys back again...I have finally got to the pipework area behind the appliances (see pic)...I have undone the pipe fitting "A" and placed a plastic bag over the opening of pipe "B"...I then emptied a full bowl of soapy water into the kitchen sink and the plastic bag filled with air..does this help you guys in anyway to diagnose my problem? Or is this just natural anyway ?...any advice/help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Madrab]

You will always get air forced along that pipe with that configuration, if the pipe heading left is from the sink and everything drains into that downpipe. If it is bubbling up through either trap then the air is finding the path of least resistance which would suggest that there could be a bit of restriction further down. If a restriction has been totally ruled out though then it can only be down to the design of the waste pipework.

There are really 3 options:-

1) Leave it and live with the gurgling
2) Consider increasing the pipework to 50mm (2") at that point.
3) Stepping the pipework at that tee, it should really be twisted left through 90 deg so the swept section is pointing left and sweeping downwards and then the straight part of the Tee becomes vertical, then there is a small piece of vertical pipe and then an elbow and then connect to the stand pipe, that would avoid any cross flow at the tee.

 

[worcesterman47]

Hi,the pipe coming from the left is from the dishwasher set up,the one below is from the boiler.I will have a look at your other suggestions and see if I can do as you mention but at the moment my wife is not keen on leaving it as it is ie gurgling ☺

 

[Madrab]

Ah ok, that changes things. If the downpipe then connects into the waste run from the sink further down the run then we're back to a restriction in the pipework, and the air is finding the least path of resistance, it's really the only thing it can be. We are then talking about sealing up all the wastes feeding into the soil pipe and then using a wetvac, as @HERTSDRAINAGE2010 mentioned before, at say point B, to suck the waste pipework clean.

 

[worcesterman47]

May sound a bit dumb here but what do you mean by sealING up all the wastes feeding into the soil pipe ? Do you mean disconnect and seal for example...kitchen sink,washing machine,dishwasher,boiler pipework that do or could connect to the vertical pipe in the pic I sent and then just leave access to the vertical pipe in pic and use wetvac down that pipe ? Sorry to sound dumb. Cheers

 

[Madrab]

No, you are correct, you could cut into the vertical pipe and wet vac only that, I only suggested sealing off the other outlets and sucking from pipe B as that is compression and easily removable whereas doing it your way means cutting into the solvent welded pipework and then having to make good. You would need to seal up the sink waste and disconnect the CH condensate too to ensure you are getting as much suction as possible on the waste pipe further down the run.

This is just a process of elimination @worcesterman47, a restriction (not a blockage) can be tricky to find especially when some possible causes have already been ruled out.

 

[worcesterman47]

Madrab, really appreciated all your advice.I will not cut any pipework and go the way you suggest through the compression joint,and seal sink pipes etc, I will now check if any of my mates have a wetvac...what wattage wetvac would you recommend or should it not really matter ? Cheers.

 

[Madrab]

The more powerful the better @worcesterman47 but any wet vac should be powerful enough to clear a pipework restriction, then check the tub and see if it's pulled anything through.

 

[worcesterman47]

Many thanks again,will do

 

[worcesterman47]

Hi guys...having tried most everything mentioned (many thanks for the help/advice) we had to finally get in a drainage company....firstly they tried to snake the pipe but that was no good at all...then they used a power jet....IT WORKED !...no more gurgling pipes...so just wanted to update you and to once again thank you for all your advice/help....