Slow broadband that keeps dropping out

[rsgaz]

have I understood this correctly?

Yes, just trying the make the best of a bad situation.

speed is low when the router is plugged directly into the RJ11 on the master socket, presumably points to the fault with the provider

Yes, but to prove that absolutely 100%, you would have to put the router into the master's RJ11 and also pull out the wires from A and B and then see what speed you are getting. That is 'the ultimate test', in terms of the maximum speed you can achieve.

IMHO, BT made a bit of a design balls up with the Mk3. The whole point of the lower half removable plate, on master sockets before and since then, is so that it disconnects any internal extension wiring, so that you/OpenReach/whoever can test just the bare incoming line, without any possible interference from a source within the house. With the Mk3, it doesn't, the A and B wires are still active.

That is now fixed since the NTE5c master with a Mk4 VDSL lower half came out. With the lower half out, the A, B, 2 ,3 and 5 are ALL isolated.

 

[rsgaz]

You don't need to run any new cables to achieve separation of the filtered and unfiltered signal from the master to the garage. It may not improve your speed that much, if at all, but it's the best way to do it.

You have already established that the orange 3 wire isn't needed, so, using your 2 pair cable from the master to the garage, just use one pair for the A and B wires and the other pair for the 2 and 5 wires.

In the garage, you can do away with the slave socket, and fit an RJ11 socket onto the existing back box, OR mount another back box and have the RJ11 next to the existing slave socket, it's up to you.

 

[Jupiter01]

You have already established that the orange 3 wire isn't needed, so, using your 2 pair cable from the master to the garage, just use one pair for the A and B wires and the other pair for the 2 and 5 wires.

Is it easiest to leave the slave socket as is using the wires connected to A and B? I also know that this correctly operates all other extension sockets.

Do I then use the new wires connected to 2 and 5 for the new RJ11 in the garage? This will then be used for my router.

 

[rsgaz]

No, you have it backwards.

A and B on the master go direct to the RJ11 in the garage. (the centre pins of an RJ11 socket)

2 and 5 go to the slave socket in the garage. (and on to the other extensions)

If you do not need a slave socket in the garage, you jelly crimp together the wires from the master (2 and 5) to the wires in the cable which continues to the next slave. The jellies will just sit loose behind the RJ11 plate, stuffed in the box so they are out the way and not visible.

 

[Jupiter01]

Thank you so much @rsgaz. Got it!
I've ordered some jelly crimps and will replace the slave with a RJ11 socket as I don't need a telephone point in the garage. Would this RJ11 socket suffice or should I be purchasing a particular brand/high performing socket?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ11-TEL...850110&hash=item3aaf93dea3:g:dEoAAOSw5ZBWJ6l9

 

[rsgaz]

Any RJ11 socket will be fine, they have no components on board, it's just a connector.

 

[Jupiter01]

Yes, but to prove that absolutely 100%, you would have to put the router into the master's RJ11 and also pull out the wires from A and B and then see what speed you are getting. That is 'the ultimate test', in terms of the maximum speed you can achieve.

You guys are absolute geniuses! When I do this, I get 24MB download speed. Where now...
I assume that as soon as I pop the A and B cables back in (irrespective of the RJ11 I will have in the garage?), it will immediately throttle back to 7MB? As you know I really need this setup in my garage.
I had an OpenReach engineer scheduled to visit but I am guessing there is no issue as far as he/she is concerned? Perhaps I should cancel that visit.

Interestingly, if I plug my telephone into the other port on this master socket, this also reduces download speeds to around 13MB. If I plug it in via a microfilter, I get the full 24MB.

Looking forward to your suggestions

 

[rsgaz]

Perhaps I should cancel that visit.

Yes.

if I plug my telephone into the other port on this master socket,

Did you replace the lower half faceplate first though before doing this test?

 

[Jupiter01]

Did you replace the lower half faceplate first though before doing this test?

I put the socket back together. Pushed on the final piece and then plugged the telephone into the port below the RJ11 port. This reduced my broadband speed. When I used a microfilter for this phone, I got the improved speeds again.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[rsgaz]

Hope that makes sense.

Yes, but that suggests the master socket isn't filtering properly, if a cheapo microfilter can out-perform it, which is very odd.
Perhaps you should change it to a new NTE5c with a Mk4 VDSL lower plate.

as soon as I pop the A and B cables back in ... ... it will immediately throttle back to 7MB?

Yes. Either, some of your cable (even possibly the further away 'unused' ones) is duff, or you have a bad join somewhere, or you've untwisted the wires too much at each join or near a source of interference (large speakers are good at this!).

How possible is running all new cables throughout the house?

 

[Jupiter01]

It's going to be a mare to run new cables. I put the current ones in when we did the extension a few years back. Really don't want to start tacking cables to the walls now.

I was getting speeds of 30-33 MB with A&B wires disconnected. When I connect these back in, it drops to 11-13 MB. I have reduced the length of wire outside the sleeve and punched them down again at both ends. Here's a picture of the garage socket:

Not sure how well you can see in this picture but the blue and blue & white wires are connected. The orange was also connected and I have now disconnected. I am sure the orange will be connected into all other downstream slave sockets too. Not sure if this is having an impact on speed too?

I have also ordered the jelly crimps and RJ11 socket.

 

[Jupiter01]

Hi Guys,

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the above info I have shared.


Also, on this, does it matter whether A connects to 2 or 5 on the RJ11 socket?

A and B on the master go direct to the RJ11 in the garage. (the centre pins of an RJ11 socket)

Thanks again.

 

[Diver Fred]

As long as the pair 'colours' are connected to the same IDC connector in every socket - No.

Have a look at

Final thought - all your internal wiring is with new (CW1308) cable and not the earlier (CW1302) cable - that has 4 wires (Bl/Or/Gr/Bn) unpaired (which I suspect is the cause of the 'ring' wire issue).

 

[Jupiter01]

I am using blue and blue&white (and a superfluous orange) wires to chain together all my extension sockets. I will keep this intact.
My plan is as follows:
At master socket, pop the blue and blue&white into 2 and 5. In garage, jelly crimp the blue and whites. All my extensions should be working at this point.

On broadband:
At master socket, pop orange and orange&white into A and B. In garage, put these into 2 and 5 on the RJ11 socket. Either colour can go into either terminal by the sounds of it...

Do I then need to remove orange from terminal 3 in all of the extension sockets? Is this having a material impact?

After making this change, do I still need a microfilter on the landline (plugged into an extension socket)?

One other thought, my alarm dialler is currently plugged into one of the extension socket. I assume that just acts as a normal telephone and hence the above would suffice but thought I'd mention that before I embark on this change.

Thanks again.

 

[bernardgreen]

The solution is to separate the ADSL and the phone signals as soon as the cable enters the house and run them on totally separate cables,

This is best achieved by a single filter in the Master NTE box which prevents any of the ADSL signal getting to the telephone extension wiring.

The Master allows the ADSL signal to go only to the socket assigned for the modem/router.

Having ADSL signals on the telephone extension wiring requires a "micro filter" at each telephone socket. This micro filter has two functions :-

(1) it prevents the ADSL signal from interfering with the telephone speech.

(2) it provides a termination that prevents ADSL signals from reflecting back to the modem/router.

Reflected ADSL signals arrive at the modem/router as a delayed echo of the main signal. This distorts the ADSL signal and reduces the "quality" of the data decoded from the ADSL signal. Corrupted data requires a re-sending of the data and this slows down the data rates.