Small shop need homemade table lamps PAT tested

[stillp]

I truly don't fully understand. I think what is probably being said is that it does, indeed, apply to "anything 'home-made' " if that anything (even if only a unique one-off) is used in any sort of commercial premises within the EU, the only exception being if the item is used in non-commercial premises. Is that what is perfectly clear to you?

Yes, if the said "thing" is covered by one or more Directives. (Or, more precisely, the national regulations derived from those Directives)

The language varies a little between different Directives, but they are all stating substantially the same thing about placing on the market and putting (or sometimes taking) into service.

 

[JohnW2]

I truly don't fully understand. I think what is probably being said is that it does, indeed, apply to "anything 'home-made' " if that anything (even if only a unique one-off) is used in any sort of commercial premises within the EU, the only exception being if the item is used in non-commercial premises. Is that what is perfectly clear to you?

Yes, if the said "thing" is covered by one or more Directives. (Or, more precisely, the national regulations derived from those Directives)

Yes, that proviso was obviously implicit in my question. Thanks for confirming.

The language varies a little between different Directives, but they are all stating substantially the same thing about placing on the market and putting (or sometimes taking) into service.

Thanks again. As I said "putting (or even 'taking') into service" seems much clearer to me to describe the sort of situation we've been discussing, in which a 'home-made' item is being used, but has not really been "placed on the market' in terms of the everyday meaning of that phrase.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

As I said "putting (or even 'taking') into service" seems much clearer to me to describe the sort of situation we've been discussing, in which a 'home-made' item is being used, but has not really been "placed on the market' in terms of the everyday meaning of that phrase.

Suppose you made a table lamp at school, as someone mentioned earlier. Using it at home is not placing on the market. If it electrocutes a member of your family, that's just a sad event. However, if it was used in a shop, the customers of that shop might be exposed to any risk from the lamp. If a customer is electrocuted there's a potential criminal charge as well as a civil case. In addition, what if the shop changes hands? The shop and its contents are then on the market.

I believe that's the argument, but please don't "shoot the messenger", I'm just trying to make people aware that they might unwittingly be putting themselve the wrong side of the law, just because the item in question hasn't been exchanged for money.

 

[JohnW2]

Suppose you made a table lamp at school, as someone mentioned earlier. Using it at home is not placing on the market. If it electrocutes a member of your family, that's just a sad event. However, if it was used in a shop, the customers of that shop might be exposed to any risk from the lamp. If a customer is electrocuted there's a potential criminal charge as well as a civil case.

The concept that more regulation is desirable when 'third parties' could be at risk is perfectly reasonable, but that does not, in itself, justify or explain all this confusing "placed on the market" language. Mind you, having said that, third parties (e.g. visitors, tradesmen etc.) can also be at risk in a domestic environment, and no-one has ever suggested that Part P should not apply to electrical work which one undertakes within ones own home for the sort of reasons you mention.

In addition, what if the shop changes hands? The shop and its contents are then on the market.

Particularly if it were, say, a wall lamp rather than a table lamp, that too could be 'on the market' when the house was sold.

I believe that's the argument, but please don't "shoot the messenger", I'm just trying to make people aware that they might unwittingly be putting themselve the wrong side of the law, just because the item in question hasn't been exchanged for money.

I really am not trying to shoot the messenger. As we have both said, this whole complicated discussion (which some have hinted is 'thread drift' which has frightened off the OP) could be crucial to the OP if they wish to remain on the right side of the law. As I wrote:

True, but unlike many a situation of 'thread drift', I think that virtually all the complicated discussions which have taken place here are, or should be, of considerable interest/importance to the OP. ... Surprising though I find it, if stillp is correct, then the OP might need a lot more than just 'PATesting' in order to be on the right side of the law if these lamps are to be used (but not sold) in a shop.

Kind Regards, John