Smart meter ?

[Murdochcat]

I'm not splittings hairs. It was me, not you, who said that it was probably a reasonable general rule-of-thumb.

I was merely reminding folks that it is a "rule-of-thumb" - i.e. something which should not be relied upon.

As I said, probably more important than the number of occupants and bedrooms is the rateable value of the property. I know plenty of properties of sufficiently high rateable value that appreciable savings would result from having a water meter even if there were more occupants than bedrooms - and your rule-of-thumb would 'miss' those cases.

As I stated, for any poor mug reading this thread , the rule of thumb is a guide. That’s all

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Our water consumption last week was 1.277 M3, which according to my spreadsheet cost £5.07, though I haven't updated the costing for a few years - I can't see it being much different.

I've just gone to the trouble of revising my spreadsheet, to have it calculate the correct costing, which shows my £5.07 for last week, should have shown £5.89.

 

[JohnW2]

As I stated, for any poor mug reading this thread , the rule of thumb is a guide. That’s all

Agreed, as a guide - i.e. a 'starting point.

In fact, worded as you did, I imagine that it's a very good guide/rule-of-thumb - i.e. that if there are less people than bedrooms, then it's pretty likely that there are appreciable savings to be had by having a meter,no matter how modest their house.

What the 'poor mugs' need to be reminded is that (although you did not say this) they might (incorrectly) 'infer' that the converse was also true - i.e. that there probably would not be savings (with a meter) if there are as many (or more) people than bedrooms. I know a good few people who would have missed out on appreciable savings had they assumed that.

 

[Diver Fred]

And what's wrong with using grey water to flush toilets? Seems like an excellent way to reduce the need for clean water.

on the whole, Not a Lot... But do you really want a bath full of water to sit there there for most of a week? Scum lines around the bath, water vapour making the house damp, drips off the bucket when transferring water from bath to toilet.

EX-BIL in North California, they used grey water for waste disposal and watering gardens but their bath and showers drained into a holding and settling tank (6000 gallons), they also had a surface water tank (6000 gallons) to store rain water. They would have to clean the holding tank out at least once a year to shift the soap residue; usually just before the start of the rainy season.

Grandparents house had (has) a 10000 gallon surface water tank - when the house was built mains water wasn't available and the ground unsuitable for a well. The pipes and filtered have been removed but it wouldn't take much to use that water for toilets.

 

[JohnW2]

on the whole, Not a Lot... But do you really want a bath full of water to sit there there for most of a week? Scum lines around the bath, water vapour making the house damp, drips off the bucket when transferring water from bath to toilet.

Indeed - but, as you go on to say ...

EX-BIL in North California, they used grey water for waste disposal and watering gardens but their bath and showers drained into a holding and settling tank (6000 gallons), they also had a surface water tank (6000 gallons) to store rain water. They would have to clean the holding tank out at least once a year to shift the soap residue; usually just before the start of the rainy season. ...

As Mr Punch would say, "That's the way to do it" ...but, given that it's going to be a fairly 'dynamic' situation, with the grey water being used at the same time as it is being created, I wouldn't have thought that one would need anything like 6,000 gallons (nearly 23,000 litres if those are US gallons) of storage.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bracknelldiy]

I've just switched to Octopus Tracker, this is a different price per day but without the annoyance and huge peak cost of a time-of-day tariff. This requires a smart meter. The daily price is mathematically linked to the actual wholesale cost.

Today is 14p per unit, instead of the standard 27p per unit. If I'd joined a year ago I'd have saved many £100s. Past performance is not an accurate guide to the future!

The maximum is capped at £1 per unit, in reality this has never happened. You can leave at any time with 14 days notice, but then can't re-join for 9 months.

I'm on electricity only, as gas doesn't exist here. But you can also have gas under this deal too, it's currently about two thirds of the standard price.

I think it's brilliant, but you need a sensible attitude to risk and the ability to pay a surprise high bill if it ever happens.

Octopus Tracker is something I have got curious about (I'm currently with Octopus). Do you get a notification of what the day rate is and how do you receive it ? Or do you need to go check on the meter ? I can see it could be useful for decisions on e.g. washing machine (and whether you are having roast turkey for Xmas dinner or reheated stew....)

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Octopus Tracker is something I have got curious about (I'm currently with Octopus). Do you get a notification of what the day rate is and how do you receive it ? Or do you need to go check on the meter ? I can see it could be useful for decisions on e.g. washing machine (and whether you are having roast turkey for Xmas dinner or reheated stew....)

I subscribed (just to the notifications, and get a daily update on price and when. Yesterday afternoon, I got an update on the day price, plus saying at 04:30am it would be - 2.4p (I think), in other words, they would pay you to consume the surplus of power.

To make it worthwhile, you need to be able to minimise your use during the day peaks, and maximise your off-peak use, with storage, storage heaters, EV charging, water heating, washing, and drying.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I subscribed (just to the notifications, and get a daily update on price and when. Yesterday afternoon, I got an update on the day price, plus saying at 04:30am it would be - 2.4p (I think), in other words, they would pay you to consume the surplus of power.

To make it worthwhile, you need to be able to minimise your use during the day peaks, and maximise your off-peak use, with storage, storage heaters, EV charging, water heating, washing, and drying.

You're talking about Agile, not Tracker.

Agile = Price varies every half hour

Agile Octopus

The UK's most awarded energy supplier. We're doing energy better - for you and the environment.

octopus.energy

Tracker = Price varies every 24 hours, from midnight onwards.

Octopus Tracker

Britains' fairest energy tariff, with dynamic daily pricing and 100% renewable electricity.

octopus.energy

I subscribe to a non-official website that sends a message to my phone at 7am every day with the current prices. I think I've saved about £100 since mid-December when I signed up.

You can get today's price from Octopus, tomorrow's from 4pm. There are loads of websites that keep a history, google will find them.

Neither tariff updates the smart meter display. It will keep showing the standard price. I just switched ours to units instead of £s.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I reckon both probably average out at around the same price for typical usage, probably savings to be made on Agile IF you live at weird times of the day and want to get obsessive about when to switch things on.

But there's a huge difference for anyone with solar panels. The export rate for Agile varies by the half hour, and is usually around half of the import rate. But for Tracker you can choose Agile prices for export OR you can get a fixed 15p/unit, which is amazing.

Today I'm paying 18.53p for the imported power and could export for 15p. This destroys the arguments for paying £1000s for batteries, there's no point in paying to keep it when you can export/import for little cost or even an occasional profit.

 

[ericmark]

I can see how we can select when the washing machine, dish washer, and tumble drier starts which may reduce our bill, however once started they need to complete their cycle, and my tumble drier can take a few hours, and also not sure about the delayed start, as both the tumble drier and washing machine rotate the drum every so often while waiting for the start time, OK for tumble drier, but with the washing machine it means the carefully placed soap bowl is no longer carefully placed but we have concentrated soap on some items of clothing, so in real terms can't use the delayed start.

So to use power when it is cheap means you need to be at home. This time of year, we rarely see export, so it does not really matter when I use the power, as the days get longer then will start exporting, but one would need to be glued to the display to work out when to turn on items, it seems the inverter has a limit as to how much it can feed in and out of the battery, so one needs to turn on the three machines at around 50% charged in sequence, and if too late one still ends up exporting.

So it is a lot of guess work, and can't see how a smart meter helps, as we already know what the system is doing.

 

[ebee]

i just got another landline call , like yesterday, from brit gas, so i sent em packing yet again, tps etc etc, next time i will threaten the pointy stick. iget emails regularly too.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I can see how we can select when the washing machine, dish washer, and tumble drier starts which may reduce our bill, however once started they need to complete their cycle, and my tumble drier can take a few hours, and also not sure about the delayed start, as both the tumble drier and washing machine rotate the drum every so often while waiting for the start time, OK for tumble drier, but with the washing machine it means the carefully placed soap bowl is no longer carefully placed but we have concentrated soap on some items of clothing, so in real terms can't use the delayed start.

So to use power when it is cheap means you need to be at home. This time of year, we rarely see export, so it does not really matter when I use the power, as the days get longer then will start exporting, but one would need to be glued to the display to work out when to turn on items, it seems the inverter has a limit as to how much it can feed in and out of the battery, so one needs to turn on the three machines at around 50% charged in sequence, and if too late one still ends up exporting.

So it is a lot of guess work, and can't see how a smart meter helps, as we already know what the system is doing.

You missed the point of the Tracker tariff. It's a different price every day but the same price all day, on average has always been much lower than the standard tariff and is exclusive to smart meters.

If you want to stick the washing on while it's an extra cheap day then you can, but we don't bother. We don't plan around it at all, and just pay £100s per year less than we used to.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You missed the point of the Tracker tariff. It's a different price every day but the same price all day, on average has always been much lower than the standard tariff and is exclusive to smart meters.

If you want to stick the washing on while it's an extra cheap day then you can, but we don't bother. We don't plan around it at all, and just pay £100s per year less than we used to.

Interesting! I have just been taking a very quick look at it, and it seems I can switch to the Tracker tarriff from my present Octopus tariff, at no cost, and switch back at no cost, I just cannot rejoin it for 9 months if I do - Is that correct?

Do they let you know the cost, ahead of time and how?

I'm pay a set amount by DD each month, how do they charge on the Tracker?

I've also been looking at the actual tariff rates, and found this... Blue line electric rate, orange gas. Is this about correct? If so, as you say, big savings to be had..

 

[StephenStephen]

Very generally speaking:

-if you've batteries and a way to match usage and battery export to half hour changes by either using tech or just not having a life, then agile import and export is worth using in the winter, maybe flux in the summer.

-If you have batteries, a life, and no agile tracking, then flux works well.

-If you don't have batteries, then tracker is quite a bargain (though with a marginal risk it might shoot sky high at a day's notice)

...and if you're switching to Octopus, find a referral code online to get £50 free.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I took the plunge yesterday evening, based on the pricing graph I posted above in #88, and filled in my request to be moved to the Tracker Tariff. Within minutes, I received an email back, confirming I was now on the Tracker. The form seemed to suggest it could take 14 days to switch tariffs, but it happened almost instantly.

Today I'm paying 17.59p/kWh for electric, and 4.39p/kWh for gas, versus the 26.520p and 6.825p. Thanks to Ivor Windybottom

The Octotracker app, shows the present days cost. You simply enter your supply region.