Snow and solar.

[ericmark]

It seems PV1 is the bottom panel, and PV2 the top, and there is nothing I can really do to clean the snow off the panels, simply need to wait for it to melt. However there must be 1000's of solar panels out of action due to the snow, how does this affect the national grid?

 

[bernardgreen]

Trace heating fitted to the panels to melt snow laying on the panels might enable restoration of power generation from the panels.

 

[ericmark]

This time not really required

the solar is increasing, as I am writing this, seen a load of snow pass the window, so soon will be back to full generation, and since I use batteries, today still no draw on grid after 5 am when off-peak ends. Now

after that snow slide, however, many don't have batteries, so a snow fall must result in a huge drop in power from solar.

 

[JohnW2]

It seems PV1 is the bottom panel, and PV2 the top, and there is nothing I can really do to clean the snow off the panels, simply need to wait for it to melt. However there must be 1000's of solar panels out of action due to the snow, how does this affect the national grid?

Physics being physics, I presume that there must be at least some heat generated within the panels (sort of similar to what bernard has suggested) - does that not help to melt the snow?

However, at least in the UK, when there is snow around the weather is usually very 'dull', so I'm not sure that all thagt much solar energy would be lost, would it?

What about fog?

It is, however, an illustration of some of the limitations of 'renewable' energy sources - just like wind turbines don't work when there is no wind. Tides/waves are essentially unstoppable, so maybe they are the most 'reliable'?

 

[ericmark]

It is slowly going up

but we have a clear blue sky at the moment with not a cloud in sight, without the snow would be looking at nearly 5 kW. I expect any time soon to hear another fall of snow off the roof and the output will jump up. However, not paid for export, and now at 75% charged, so likely will end the daylight with a fully charged battery.

It is, however, an illustration of some of the limitations of 'renewable' energy sources - just like wind turbines don't work when there is no wind. Tides/waves are essentially unstoppable, so maybe they are the most 'reliable'?

That is, as you say the problem, there is someone watching the dials trying to decide if a gas powered station needs to go online.

 

[JohnW2]

That is, as you say the problem, there is someone watching the dials trying to decide if a gas powered station needs to go online.

... and that will always be the case if we become significantly dependent on solar and wind (although we'd be unlucky if nature contrived that both solar and wind failed simultaneously) - unless/until we have enough nuclear capacity, although I don't think that's necessarily very 'controllable.

As I implied, we need 'reliable' forms of 'renewable' electricity generation. As I said, tide/wave would seem one possibility. Is some sort of 'geothermal' also a possibility, perhaps? In fact, what about massive 'heat pumps'? Provided one has some electricity from some other source to power them, one can presumably get a lot more out than one 'puts in'?

 

[Jurassicspark]

I know someone who has a large ground mount array and rigged up a leafblower along with a pulley system that moves the leaf blower back and forth along the top of the array, blowing snow down.

It works shockingly well.

 

[JohnD]

... and that will always be the case if we become significantly dependent on solar and wind (although we'd be unlucky if nature contrived that both solar and wind failed simultaneously) - unless/until we have enough nuclear capacity, although I don't think that's necessarily very 'controllable.

I used to live in a country that had massive underground storage for natural gas as a buffer against peak winter demand.

Sadly the government of the country felt that national assets, and the protection of the citizens and the nation, were not its concern.

 

[JohnD]

View attachment 363377 It seems PV1 is the bottom panel, and PV2 the top, and there is nothing I can really do to clean the snow off the panels, simply need to wait for it to melt. However there must be 1000's of solar panels out of action due to the snow, how does this affect the national grid?

The glass is black, so warms up reasonably well if there is some sunlight. Snow is not light proof.

In my case, winter peak generation is between about 10am and 3pm. Once the sun gets on them they will be clean all day. I am not in a very cold district.

Because the electrical efficiency is best at low temperatures, on winter days of patchy cloud, I see the voltage riding quickly to a peak, then reducing as the panels warm.

 

[SpecialK]

It is slowly going up View attachment 363392but we have a clear blue sky at the moment with not a cloud in sight, without the snow would be looking at nearly 5 kW. I expect any time soon to hear another fall of snow off the roof and the output will jump up. However, not paid for export, and now at 75% charged, so likely will end the daylight with a fully charged battery.

That is, as you say the problem, there is someone watching the dials trying to decide if a gas powered station needs to go online.

Why are you not paid for export?

 

[ericmark]

Why are you not paid for export?

I am with British Gas, who sent me forms, which I filled in, but they said wrong formate even when it was their form, there is a £75 exit fee, so waiting until April, and if not sorted by then will leave for someone whole will pay me, likely Octopus, but since winter not worth losing the £75 to change before the contract ends.

 

[JohnW2]

I am with British Gas, who sent me forms, which I filled in, but they said wrong formate even when it was their form, there is a £75 exit fee, so waiting until April, and if not sorted by then will leave for someone whole will pay me, likely Octopus, but since winter not worth losing the £75 to change before the contract ends.

If you had swapped (to Octopus or whoever) when this problem first arose, would you have got less than £75 in payments for export in the period from then up to next April?

 

[flameport]

how does this affect the national grid?

It doesn't.
The same lack of solar occurs 365 nights a year.

 

[JohnW2]

It doesn't. The same lack of solar occurs 365 nights a year.

366 in some years