solid wood flooring

[WoodYouLike]

As WoodYouLike said earlier "90% of flooring can be installed floating without any problems and is 9 out of 10 times the easiest way forward.

Probably true! For me (In the trade) a 10% failure rate is not really an option! You may well decide to chance it and go with the floating option, and the chances are you will be ok. If you don't want to risk it Elastilon is a better bet.

Sorry, edbosworth, but that was not what I meant: in 90% of the circumstances solid wooden floors can be installed floating, not that 10% of floating floors will fail!
The 10% consist of installing directly onto joist or battens (if needed).

Elastilon (Dutch invention) is indeed a good, but expansive product and you have to get used to the method of installing (specially the first bit where the extra sheet has to be placed on top of the adhesive and afterwards removed).

Albo, you have two different types of underfloor: concrete and plywood. It's always best to create on type of underfloor. In your case it would be most simple us install thin hardboard sheets in the two 'rooms'.
With sheet materials as 'subfloor' you don't use a DPM.

Hope this helps

 

[WoodYouLike]

Generally with a solid hardwood, floor I would always recommend nailing with a portanailer (available from most tool hire shops very cheaply). Floating a sold is not usually recommeded as wood can have a tendancy to warp/cup etc. Nailing it down is bar the far the safest option and not really any more complicated.

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More and more manufacturers do recommend solid wooden floors to be installed floating (even UK-based ones). Say you have a concrete or chipboard underfloor, as more and more new and renovated houses have, you're then wasting money, time and materials to install battens (like we hear suggested many times, cause 'that's the way it has always be done' )

There are of course a few precautions/items you have to be aware of when installing floating:
quality of underfloor (moist, level etc), width of the room and width of the boards.
But on the whole, 90% of solid wood flooring can be installed floating without any problems, it's the easiest and time/money/material saving method.

 

[Albo99]

Many thanks!
Right for my next question. I am worried about how straight the lines of the joins will be when laying the floor through the two rooms. The rooms have double doors connecting them.
I dont want it to look like a dogs leg you see

Do you reckon that I start in a particular corner in one room, Lay the floor. And then mark out in the second room and make sure that the joins of the wood planks will match in the second room.

OR... Do I use straps and start bang in the middle of the two rooms and work out to the edges of the rooms. Is it common to use this way for solid wood?

Just wondering whats the most tried and tested way of completing the job without a trauma or earache from her indoors

 

[Albo99]

Oh yes How thin would the hardwood sheets have to be( 5mm?) or does it matter?

Thanks again

 

[WoodYouLike]

Many thanks!
Right for my next question. I am worried about how straight the lines of the joins will be when laying the floor through the two rooms. The rooms have double doors connecting them.
I dont want it to look like a dogs leg you see

Do you reckon that I start in a particular corner in one room, Lay the floor. And then mark out in the second room and make sure that the joins of the wood planks will match in the second room.

It's the same method wether you're installing a threshold in between or not.
You start in one room and finish that one. since you're going straight through to the second room, you'll end up with part of the boards in the first room running through already. Try to keep them straight, and start 'filling' the second room to the nearest (straight) wall. You can use a batten or some blocks temporary screwed to the underfloor to keep a straight line when 'filling' in the room.

If you would install a threshold in between, you do cut the boards in the door way (as if there's a wall, with enough room to install the thresholds and keep an expansion gap on both sides of the threshold). In the second room you start in the doorway, lining the new boards with the boards in the first room (as if the board continue underneath the threshold). Again, you can use a batten or some blocks temporary screwed to the underfloor to keep a straight line when 'filling' in the room.

Hope this helps.

3mm hardboard would do the trick, it's not for stability but to create one kin of underfloor.

Good luck

 

[Albo99]

Ah I see

So complete one room. Then from the door way pick a join between the planks nearest to a wall and mark it and basically continue the line to the facing wall with a piece of batten.

Screw down a piece of batten ensuring that the line from the joins in the wood in the first room continue onto the piece of batten is straight.

Then lay the row of planks right up against the batten and work back to the nearest wall. When complete, remove the batten and then continue to lay the floor to the opposite wall across the room.

Think I've get the jist of it now, but we will see. Just hope the joins are tight enough so no one falls/trips on them

Thanks for the help, much appreciated

 

[edbosworth]

Sorry, edbosworth, but that was not what I meant: in 90% of the circumstances solid wooden floors can be installed floating, not that 10% of floating floors will fail!
The 10% consist of installing directly onto joist or battens (if needed).

Ok, I haven't seen many manufacturers recommending floating solids, but perhaps i have just been dealing with different products than yourself. (we import a lot of our timber from Holland and they use a different system again over there).
There are of course the Junkers type products that use clip systems to float solids but I don't think this is what you are talking about.
Are there any manufactures in particular you know of that recommend floating solids, I would be interested in looking into this my self.
Also do you know if there are limitations to the width of board to which this applies etc.

Ed

 

[WoodYouLike]

Hi Ed

There are indeed some limitations for the floating method with solid flooring.
A) the room shouldn't be wider than 5 - 6 meter, if so you have to either 'turn' the wood floor around or glue the floor (or go for a Wood-engineered floor, much safer)
B) rule of thumb of solid floorboard width: maximum 10 times the thickness, otherwise you will have the risk of cupping and buckling (20 thick is max 200mm wide)
C) Beech, even steamed, is notorious for expanding and shrinking (a so-called nervous wood type). For this wood type the limits are even more restrict, room not to wide and leaving an extra wide expansion gap. Beech is known to expand/shrink 7mm per meter wide)

with regards to manufacturers: all the ones we use (from The Netherlands, Belgium) are fine with the floating method as long as you keep an eye on the limitations and circumstances.

 

[Albo99]

Hello again.

I am planning on laying the solid birch wood on plywood in both rooms.

Should I have the ply just floating as well on the concrete with the floor laid on top of the ply? I am going to tape this pieces of ply together and am going to try and get the biggest pieces possible to avoid joins in the ply.

Or should I try and fix the ply to the concrete with glue, nails etc and have the floo floatong on top of the ply? Im thinking just floating it to allow the whole thing to movement freely.

And When you are glueing the planks together, would it be ok to glue the underside of the planks to the ply or would that be a big no no due to movement of the wood. Again Im thinking not to do this due to movement.

 

[WoodYouLike]

I am going to tape this pieces of ply together and am going to try and get the biggest pieces possible to avoid joins in the ply.

Using the biggest pieces possible is not really advisable, depending on the quality of your underfloor. Any dips in the underfloor will create a bouncing effect.
If you want to glue the sheetmaterial down, use small sheets to avoid this.
If you don't want to glue, then you'll have to screw the boards every 25 - 30 cm (length ways and width ways, have fun )

If you install them floating, use a DPM underneath.

But Albo99, going back to one of your earlier posts, I'm getting a bit confused now:
you have two rooms, both with a different underfloor and level. You're going to use plywood to create the same level.
Main question here is (and where you've lost me, could be my English ) do you plan to install the wooden floor in both rooms without using a threshold yes or no?
If you're going to use a threshold, then it's alright to have two different kind of underfloors, as long as you use the proper insulation in both rooms (concrete is DPM and insulation, sheetmaterial is only insulation)

If I have confused you with earlier answers then I apologize.

And When you are glueing the planks together, would it be ok to glue the underside of the planks to the ply or would that be a big no no due to movement of the wood. Again Im thinking not to do this due to movement

You just glue the T&G's (completely, not just some drops here and there). Use proper sound-insulation between ply and floorboards

 

[Albo99]

Hi Wood.
The two rooms I have are concrete floors. Both pretty much level. But one is about 20-25mm lower than the other.

I will be putting down a Damp proof membrane on both floors and will be putting in a threshold. At the moment I am laying plywood to build up the lower floor and dont mind a little bit of a drop from one to the other as long as it is not massive.

I want to use the best possible platform on the higher floor but not raising it too much as this would make my job harder trying to bring the two levels together.

Do you think on the upper floor that the DPM and thin ply (3mm). Or would a good foam underlay be ok for the job?

On the lower floor I am laying a DPM and then raising the floor with plywood sheets(1.2m square). And thinking of laying foam underlay on top to lay the wood floor?

Please tell me if you think if this aint the best way??

 

[WoodYouLike]

Do you think on the upper floor that the DPM and thin ply (3mm). Or would a good foam underlay be ok for the job?

Definitely. A combi-product that includes a DPM and foam will do the trick.

On the lower floor I am laying a DPM and then raising the floor with plywood sheets(1.2m square). And thinking of laying foam underlay on top to lay the wood floor?

Please tell me if you think if this aint the best way??

Sorry for the earlier confusion, I do apologize. Your way of thinking and working is correct.

If there is still a little difference in height you can use a so-called reducer (ramp) as threshold.

 

[Albo99]

Hi.
Thanks for the help, I have been having a trauma for the last few days I think the wood floor would be easier to lay using a foam underlay underneath.
just hope it all works out ok