Someone is lying...

[Brigadier]

It's five minutes before an edit of your post shows up with the subscript "edited a few minutes ago"-type message, isn't it?

Just wondering........

 

[charliegolf]

Yes look at them, see what the underlying causes were.

You keep on about this. Are you really suggesting (in the face of overwhelming evidence from ONS and other grown-ups) that the excess deaths are for anything other than predominantly covid?

 

[Brigadier]

.

Most sensible thing you've posted so far; keep it up.

Excess deaths; explain away.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Highest annual deaths for ten years; what happened in 2010?

I am sure someone posted a link to that effect recently.

However, it might be a bit longer but higher in the past.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281478/death-rate-united-kingdom-uk/

 

[diy_fun_uk]

As per my earlier point, why are you reluctant to give further options in your poll? The situation you're referring to is too complex to essentially force forum members to select one or the other. Some might be of the opinion neither or both are to blame, or simply might be unsure given the complexities. Your poll should have reflected that.

I'm sure much of what's gone on will come out (good, bad, ugly) in a 10,000 page report in years to come following the obligatory review, including how data was collated, assessed and presented. I'm also confident in my assertion that governments are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Okay I'm taking extremes, however had they enforced a full lockdown for everyone bar essential workers from March and kept it in place for 12 months, there would have been an outcry. If they had essentially let the population roam free with very little restriction since March, there would have been an outcry.

Only yesterday Boris was giving his update, advising how serious things are, apologising for the number of deaths, reinforcing the importance of following the guidance. It then came to people asking questions and what did someone ask? Along the lines of 'Can you give us an idea when air corridors will be re-opened, with appropriate safeguards in place?' Whilst it's a valid question, it's just one example of the hundreds of plates the government need to keep spinning to manage this situation. And taking that example, if they open corridors too soon and numbers spike and can be connected to air travel, there will be an outcry. Equally if they keep air corridors shut for longer to mitigate the risk, there will be an outcry.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

In fact, if you look at the countries with the lowest rates in the world, they are all BAME nations, , which actually managed it far better than any other "western" nation.

It is simply better at killing people that have poor access to healthcare.

These two statements don't make sense and contradict each other. BAME countries usually have poor healthcare systems. Caucasians living in mainly westernised countries have good access to better healthcare. So why would it be killing more of them?

And all the highest death rates are mostly white nations.

Maybe because white nations have larger numbers of elderly, obese and those with health problems who are sustained by better healthcare services. Exactly the three groups most at risk from Covid.

 

[JP_]

Go back and read what I actually posted, rather than argue with me about things that I did not say.

I read it, and I am not arguing, just discussing.

But even if some countries counted differently you would not see such a clear difference in death rates. If it kills more BAME, and lockdown is ineffective, then how did so many BAME countries keep cases so low? People at greater risk or more likely to die regardless of the cause of that risk, but this does not change the fact that our government has failed to protect these people. The same rules apply to all people in all countries, and our demographics are not vastly different these days.

My only point is, the government's lack of action is the cause of so many deaths, not the fact that there are overweight, BAME and at risk.

Of these possible causes:

- greater proportions of "at risk" groups (BAME, obese, diabetic, etc)
- equivalent age demographics, if not greater numbers of older people,
- poorer general healthcare provision,​

The only one Japan does not have is a poorer healthcare provision - almost 100% BAME, and the oldest population in the world.

Maybe their government policy is the key difference here?

 

[sxturbo]

So a life has an associated valuation [\quote]

Well yes, in a kind of way, it is inevitable people will die of the virus, and it's a case of managing the number of deaths because of catching covid and deaths caused by covid,

 

[Bodd]

So, how come the lockdowns and safety measures in South Koriea, Japan, China were so successful?

In fact, if you look at the countries with the lowest rates in the world, they are all BAME nations, with the exception of New Zealand, which actually managed it far better than any other "western" nation. And all the highest death rates are mostly white nations. It really is time to stop blaming BAME people - the stats show the opposite.

It is simply better at killing people that have poor access to healthcare.
It's spread is entirely down to government policy. It is controlled by proper lockdowns, and not opening pubs and hair salons.

The UK is the perfect storm

• New inexperienced Government
  • Boris never been prime minister before
    • Got things wrong
    • Dealing with Brexit
• Never closed the borders
  • One of the busiest stop overs in the world.
• Cold climate
• Idiot people
• Big Bame population
  • Not getting enough sunlight
  • Not eating natural foods
• High obesity rates

• Over populated country
  • Got less sheep than people
  • To many living in cramped conditions.

• Not been through this sort of thing before. Not wearing masks.
  • Unlike
    • Japan
    • South Korea
    • China

• Much to worried not to offend.

 

[^woody^]

You keep on about this.

Do I? Are you mixed up or mixing me up with someone else?

 

[John the plumber]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/750/regulation/19

 

[JP_]

Maybe because white nations have larger numbers of elderly, obese and those with health problems who are sustained by better healthcare services. Exactly the three groups most at risk from Covid.

Obesity rates are on average higher in BAME nations.

New Zealand also has very high obesity rates, but one of the lowest covid death rates.

Yes, being overweight, poor and old will increase the likelihood of death if you catch it - but if you don't catch it, you will be OK. Many countries have managed to do this.

We didn't protect our vulnerable people, even though we knew about the virus before it even reached our shores.

 

[Trazor]

How about more recent Data........

 

[ReganAndCarter]

And all the highest death rates are mostly white nations.

It is simply better at killing people that have poor access to healthcare.

I still don't understand this, because white nations usually have good access to healthcare. Makes no sense and is contradictory.

 

[John the plumber]

How about more recent Data........View attachment 220438

That is excess deaths,that isn’t Covid deaths lol
Took from the bbc aswell,who are the worse media outlet for false news.