Souber DBB lock mortiser

[opps]

Hi all

I have a few doors to hang over the next couple of months.

I am considering buying the Souber DBB. I looked at some of the cheaper versions and came across too many negative reviews. By and large, the reviews for the Souber seem to be positive.

It seems to be supplied with the 19mm, 22mm and 25mm cutters. However, I have no idea which locks my customers will be purchasing.

Not being a "proper" carpenter I am uncertain what tolerances I can "get away" with. By that, I mean if the recessed part of the lock is 16mm wide, would it be acceptable to use the 19mm carbide cutter? Or should I purchase the 16.2mm carbide tip?

With regards to the plate over the mortice lock, should I use the exact cutter or go for one slightly smaller and use a chisel to define the edges.

Feedback from people that have used the DBB will be appreciated. I am less interested in the "use spade bits, a spoon and a chisel" replies unless the person posting has relevant experience of both.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you are doing this seriously you'll need more cutters... Lock face plates need to be recessed accurately, so there is very little leeway in cutter sizing - you just need the right size for the faceplate. You rout out the recess then square the corners with a sharp chisel afterwards (mark the top/bottom lines using a square and knife first, it is easy to chop out past where you intended or nake end cuts non-square). Lock bodies can be taken out a millimetre or two over size as the lock body typically screws into place via the faceplate, but you still want a snugish fit, I'd say. You'll still need your spade bits, keyhole saw, combi squares, etc for the keyholes, etc

Drills - despite what the manufacturer says, the Souber can be used with a cordless drill, but it really does need to be a honking great top of the line combi, e.g. a Makita DHP481/487 or the like, capable of at least 2000rpm or faster and a lot of torque. Try it with a slower/less powerful drill and you'll struggle. SDS drills are also useless as they just aren't fast enough

Of course you still need to chop out the receiver, but I'm sure you are aware if the old Marmite trick

Been using a DBB on and off for about 4-1/2 years - runs rings around a Trend jig and a router, not to mention chopping out the lock body mortises to full depth (with the Trend you have to break out a drill bit drill and chisel on deep locks like DDA models because the router cutters available aren't long enough)

 

[^woody^]

Ive just watched some videos, and it looks like a faff. Perhaps OK for un or semi skilled, but it looks like a chippie would have those mortices and recesses cut out while that thing was still being set up.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Ive just watched some videos, and it looks like a faff. Perhaps OK for un or semi skilled, but it looks like a chippie would have those mortices and recesses cut out while that thing was still being set up.

I've heard this sort of thing before so many times before (I'm thinking biscuit jointers, plunge saws, lasers, site vacuums, dust masks, etc), especially from non-joiners. If I'm doing several mortise locks in a row then a DBB is faster and more accurate than doing them by hand, especially if the face plates are the radiused end types. One offs it"s a bit debatable which is faster, but even there a DBB is generally neater and more accurate. I know a few very experienced joiners and I've also come across locksmiths who use them for those reasons - neatness, accuracy, consistency, etc. Would you also turn round and say a joiner shouldn't use a trim router to hog out the majority of the waste on hinge recesses? Probably.

 

[^woody^]

I've heard this sort of thing before so many times before (I'm thinking biscuit jointers, plunge saws, lasers, site vacuums, dust masks, etc), especially from non-joiners. If I'm doing several mortise locks in a row then a DBB is faster and more accurate than doing them by hand, especially if the face plates are the radiused end types. One offs it"s a bit debatable which is faster, but even there a DBB is generally neater and more accurate. I know a few very experienced joiners and I've also come across locksmiths who use them for those reasons - neatness, accuracy, consistency, etc. Would you also turn round and say a joiner shouldn't use a trim router to hog out the majority of the waste on hinge recesses? Probably.

I'm only going by the videos.

Mark this, clamp that, adjust those, move that, tighten this, move that, clip this, slide that, move this, check that, fit bit, connect drill and ...... you're off.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I'm only going by the videos.

Mark this, clamp that, adjust those, move that, tighten this, move that, clip this, slide that, move this, check that, fit bit, connect drill and ...... you're off.

Well, for a conventional hand cut mortise lock for a start you need to mark the centre line, plus the top and bottom of both the mortise and the face plate - so there is no difference there. Then you need to strike a centre line and mark both the sides of both the lock body mortise and the face plate recess, which also takes a bit of faffing about woth mortise and marking gauge. No need to do this with a DBB as the jig self-centres and you only need to fit the appropriate size of cutter. I find that drilling takes slightly less time.with a DBB than using auger bits or spade bits in my experience, but the DBB guarantees a perpendicular recess and the cutter allows you to side to side rout the lock body recess a bit more easily than using a spade bit does. Finally you need to square corners and clean out, so no difference there. On your first DBB cut lock recess that makes you maybe a bit slower (a few minutes) than doing it "old school" but guarantees the lock body will be perpendicular to the door edge and truly centred (and you must at some point have had some nugget who cut the mortise at a slight angle and/or offset from the centreline which can mess up installation of the keep/receiver a bit). When you start doing multiples of the same lock you simply make up a rod (staff) to mark the extents and it gets somewhat quicker to use the DBB than doing it the standard way. Like almost every other piece of kit, once you've used it a couple of times it becomes a lot faster and easier to use, but just avoid the Chinese knock-offs as they are reputedly complete carp

 

[opps]

If you are doing this seriously you'll need more cutters... Lock face plates need to be recessed accurately, so there is very little leeway in cutter sizing - you just need the right size for the faceplate. You rout out the recess then square the corners with a sharp chisel afterwards (mark the top/bottom lines using a square and knife first, it is easy to chop out past where you intended or nake end cuts non-square). Lock bodies can be taken out a millimetre or two over size as the lock body typically screws into place via the faceplate, but you still want a snugish fit, I'd say. You'll still need your spade bits, keyhole saw, combi squares, etc for the keyholes, etc

Drills - despite what the manufacturer says, the Souber can be used with a cordless drill, but it really does need to be a honking great top of the line combi, e.g. a Makita DHP481/487 capable of at least 2000rpm or faster and a lot of torque Try it with a slower/less powerful drill and you'll struggle. SDS drills are also useless as they just aren't fast enough

Of course you still need to chop out the receiver, but I'm sure you are aware if the old Marmite trick

Been using a DBB on and off for about 4-1/2 years - runs rings around a Trend jig and a router, not to mention chopping out the lock body mortises to full depth (with the Trend you have to break out a drill bit drill and chisel on deep locks like DDA models because the router cutters available aren't long enough)

Many thanks for the advice. You were the person that I had hoped, above others, would answer. Frankly, I do not understand the "yeah, but you could gouge the hole with a wooden spoon" response from fellow members. Over the years, I have use spade(etc) bits. They wonder off track (my fault)

I have ordered the DBB and additionally ordered the smallest carbide cutter. Will order other cutters as required.

No idea what the marmite trick is though. Does that mean smear marmite and the see where it hits the door frame.

I did consider the trend router jig option, but it struck me as being (way) more expensive and not something that I would want to deal with a door that is all ready hanging.


Many thanks though.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

No idea what the marmite trick is though. Does that mean smear marmite and the see where it hits the door frame.

Yes. Got it. Smear it on the flat end of the mortise lock bolt. It is the shorthand route, if you like

I did consider the trend router jig option, but it struck me as being (way) more expensive and not something that I would want to deal with a door that is all ready hanging.

It isn't nice to use it in that situation, really! This is especially because you need a large 1/2in plunge router with 70 to 75mm depth of plunge, and those suckers are heavy, man... I only mentioned it as I was convinced that if I didn't, someone else would

As to spade bits, well they aren't that accurate - for greater accuracy try a decent auger bit, or put a pilot hole where you want the spade bit to run first.

 

[^woody^]

"yeah, but you could gouge the hole with a wooden spoon"

For clarity, the tool is a "chisel" (mortice and bevel variety), and if you can't use one then you probably shouldn't be fitting mortice locks in the first place. I don't think a tool intended to make a carpenters job easier is intended to make someone a carpenter.

 

[^woody^]

Yes. Got it. Smear it on the flat end of the mortise lock bolt. It is the shorthand route, if you like

Who keeps marmite in their toolkit?

Don't you have a lead pencil?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Who keeps marmite in their toolkit?

Well, when I'm locking out, I do - in one of those tiny one portion jam jars you are offered when you have breakfast in a posh hotel:

(Taken from my tool kit not 10 minutes ago)

Don't you have a lead pencil?

Yes, and I even still have lead in my pencil ... But I don't ever use those stupid, big, numb so-called "carpenter's" pencils which are a pain to sharpen and which simply can't be used for accurate work. Anyone turning up to install doors or ironmongery with one of those gets first fix, if there is any, or is politely shown the door. I also find that graphite doesn't transfer well to newly gloss painted surfaces - but Marmite (and for that matter axle grease) does.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

For clarity, the tool is a "chisel" (mortice and bevel variety), and if you can't use one then you probably shouldn't be fitting mortice locks in the first place. I don't think a tool intended to make a carpenters job easier is intended to make someone a carpenter.

I presume you mean a bevel edge chisel? Or more correctly a bevel edge firmer chisel?

They actually stopped making "pig stickers" (heavy bolstered mortise chisels, or "real mortise chisels") when the Beatles were at number one, whilst registered mortise chisels were only ever a rough and ready tool for other trades (designed to be driven with a hammer!) and you simply didn't take your sash mortise chisels, with their boxwood handles out on site.

As it happens the C&G approved technique was to bore out the majority of the waste (with a brace and bit) then hack out the rest of the waste with firmer chisels (and has been all.my working life). Chisels alone are fine for one lock, but 4, 6 or even 8 in a day? No way! Bevel edge chisels were sort of frowned for mortises at one time because they were considered to be "less accurate". You should also take the door off the hinges for accuracy (by holding in a door clamp, giving you a horizontal door edge to work on so you can chop vertically) as you can struggle to make straight, square cuts in a vertically held door which is jammed in place by a wedge beneath it, whilst you are working on your knees. I recently did a paired set of doors that way (withbthe doors off and clamped) - but TBH the DBB would have been faster than doing it by hand. Nice to keep my hand in, but not strictly necessary (the job was a favour, so no money changed hands)

 

[^woody^]

Well, when I'm locking out, I do - in one of those tiny one portion jam jars you are offered when you have breakfast in a posh hotel:

View attachment 291112

(Taken from my tool kit not 10 minutes ago)

Yes, and I even still have lead in my pencil ... But I don't ever use those stupid, big, numb so-called "carpenter's" pencils which are a pain to sharpen and which simply can't be used for accurate work. Anyone turning up to install doors or ironmongery with one of those gets first fix, if there is any, or is politely shown the door. I also find that graphite doesn't transfer well to newly gloss painted surfaces - but Marmite (and for that matter axle grease) does.

Would you be interested in purchasing tubs of surplus beeswax paste - which will have other uses not just spreading on bread?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

 

[^woody^]

They actually stopped making "pig stickers" (heavy bolstered mortise chisels, or "real mortise chisels") when the Beatles were at number one, whilst registered mortise chisels were only ever a rough and ready tool for other trades (designed to be driven with a hammer!) and you simply didn't take your sash mortise chisels, with their boxwood handles out on site.

I picked up a couple a few years ago and what a difference - brand new, I don't know where they were kept all this time but I Love Love them Do.