Souber DBB lock mortiser

[Deleted member 174758]

I have a "harlequin" set, but they were from before my time (so very old!). As you say, you can't beat them for heavy mortising, with the appropriate size of wooden mallet - BTW another thing I no longer carry (and equally difficult to source since Emir stopped making them)

 

[opps]

For clarity, the tool is a "chisel" (mortice and bevel variety), and if you can't use one then you probably shouldn't be fitting mortice locks in the first place. I don't think a tool intended to make a carpenters job easier is intended to make someone a carpenter.

Would you really fit a lock using chisels only? How long would that take?

I really do not understand your animosity, particularly, given that you have no idea what my skill set is. Although I once worked for a "cabinet maker" (admittedly, largely sheet materials) I freely admit that I often need/decide to defer to people like @JobAndKnock

I am capable of hanging ("standard") doors and doing second fix to an "industry" (read: domestic) standard. I have spent 30 years using spade and then later Irwin/Armeg auger bits. I don't know if you have ever fitted a mortice lock, but it is very easy to deviate off square.

I looked at the Souber and then the significantly more expensive router options. As per an earlier post, I don't feel comfortable using my Dewalt DW625ek router on a door edge that is currently hanging. It weighs 10Kg. That is a 6th of my body weight and a tool that needs to be plunged at an awkward angle/position.

I am trying to save time (for both me and the customer), hence the willingness to pay for tool dedicated to the job. I really do not see it as being a compromise. Are you equally going to malign me for using a router for the hinges? Or a drill to pilot the hinge screws.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Would you really fit a lock using chisels only? How long would that take?

Well, @opps, it is possible, but it is certainly a skill which is no longer taught in colleges, nor has been for some time. AFAIK they still teach hand cutting mortise and tenon joints - but that isn't the same thing - for lock mortises they teach you to hog out the waste with a drill and bit then use firmer or bevel edge firmer chisels to clear the waste (it's a speed thing, but could also be because site chippies don't carry sets of mortise chisels around, and possibly never did). I think it would also an approach of limited use when, for example, fitting new locks into old doors with different sized lock bodies - something which is far more accurate, easier and faster to do with a mechanical contrivance, such as a Souber jig

I am capable of hanging ("standard") doors and doing second fix to an "industry" (read: domestic) standard. I have spent 30 years using spade and then later Irwin/Armeg auger bits. I don't know if you have ever fitted a mortice lock, but it is very easy to deviate off square.

Well, I haven't seen anyone hand chop a hinge recess all that many times in recent decades (haven't done it too often myself, either TBH) - it is far more accurate to use a trim router to hog out to a constant depth for the majority of the hinge bed then just chop out the remaining waste at the edges and in the corners with a sharp chisel. These days I also use Vix bits (self-centring sleeved drill bits) for the hinge screws - because it helps to get the screw heads in straight and flat every time

As to mortise lock recesses, I learned long ago not to use spade bits, which are rather prone to wandering off line. Whilst I have yet to drill through the side of a door, I have seen it done a couple of times with spade bits, so I stick to auger bits (run at a fairly slow speed) for one offs. The issue of using chisels alone nevet spplies as a set of augers are always in my basics kit box (together with a file to sharpen 'em).

I looked at the Souber and then the significantly more expensive router options. As per an earlier post, I don't feel comfortable using my Dewalt DW625ek router on a door edge that is currently hanging. It weighs 10Kg. That is a 6th of my body weight and a tool that needs to be plunged at an awkward angle/position.

I have used the a MOF177e (basically the same router, different colour and logo) in combination with a Trend jig mounted on still-hung doors and it was always a bit of a fraught thing to do; basically just a bit risky. The visible result is very neat, but a lot of the time I found I needed to buy yet another template from Trend to make it work (or use two templates at once to get the right combination of width and height), and often the mortises produced just weren't deep enough, so a bit of finessing with a drill, spade bit and chisel was necessary in order to get the lock in which makes them slowervtomuse than the Souber. The reason for using any of these jigs is always the same - to get a consistently neat end result. It's all very well battinf on about what joiner's  should be able to do - but reality isn't necessarilly the same, especially when you start working on £1000 front doors

I am trying to save time (for both me and the customer), hence the willingness to pay for tool dedicated to the job. I really do not see it as being a compromise.

It isn't a compromise. It's expedient behaviour so far as I am concerned. You are trying to do a good job for your client - I for one wish that more people had such an approach to the job

 

[mrrusty]

I have a souber morticer and it certainly takes the clenchy bum moment away when cutting deep mortices in not much deeper door stiles by hand.... Wouldn't be without mine.

 

[opps]

Used it for the first time yesterday. The door was a cra.p hollow door. It definitely made the slight rebate, and main rebate more accurate.

My choice of drill, however, is far too heavy. It is an old Metabo 705w drill. At a guess it is over 2.5Kg and quite long.

I had to use my hip to apply pressure whilst guiding the drill up and down. One hand to hold the trigger, one hand to hold the round uppy downy guide. Unfortunately, my hip is not the most accurate when it comes to applying the correct level of pressure

Can anyone recommend a better drill?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

When making the large lock mortise it can be easier (less heavy work) to drill a series of holes, then connect them by moving the drill up and down rather than trying to "rout" out the recess. That's how I do it with a cordless drill, but I do use a very heavy cordless drill - a Makita DHP481 - as smaller cordless drills won't cut it, literally

 

[opps]

When making the large lock mortise it can be easier (less heavy work) to drill a series of holes, then connect them by moving the drill up and down rather than trying to "rout" out the recess. That's how I do it with a cordless drill, but I do use a very heavy cordless drill - a Makita DHP481 - as smaller cordless drills won't cut it, literally

I had to do a small mortice on a fire check door today. I started using the drill upside down, but soon noticed that I was inadvertently pressing the "keep running (push in) button".

I found that rotating the drill through 90 degrees made it far more manageable. I was still using my hip to apply pressure, my right hand to hold the drill handle/trigger and my left hand to move the mechanism up and down. It worked as it should but I am still concerned that the weight of the drill (when not supported might warp things).

I am very happy with the tool. It makes life so much easier, as tools should. Thank you to you and @mrrusty for commending it.

I am still thinking of buying a (light) plastic body corded drill for it. None of my cordless drills are up to the job.

For anyone reading this, the DBB mortiser is definitely worth buying if you can justify the expenditure. In my experience it takes a couple of minutes to set up but is wayyyy faster than alternative options. Be advised that you may need to purchase additional cutters (it is supplied with 3).

I spent £120 from Toucan Tools with an additional cutter. Given how slow my chisel work is, I guestimate that after 4 or 5 doors, the Souber will have paid for itself.

 

[mrrusty]

I use an old 500W green bosch corded with mine which seems ideal. I also have the thick door alternative guide.

 

[opps]

I use an old 500W green bosch corded with mine which seems ideal. I also have the thick door alternative guide.

Thanks, so it is the speed of the drill rather than the wattage?

I worry about my drill warping the shaft or damaging the bearings when I leave it dangling .It is a long time since I did A level maths, but I have a basic understanding of stresses.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Thanks, so it is the speed of the drill rather than the wattage?

Yes, and by the way...

Drills - despite what the manufacturer says, the Souber can be used with a cordless drill, but it really does need to be a honking great top of the line combi, e.g. a Makita DHP481/487 or the like, capable of at least 2000rpm or faster and a lot of torque. Try it with a slower/less powerful drill and you'll struggle. SDS drills are also useless as they just aren't fast enough

Or, I did say something along those lines. In fact I understand they recommend 2500 to 3000rpm

 

[opps]

I am working on a "building site". Not something I do very often. And kinda regretting it given that the place is so chuffin' messy.

After seeing the following...



I recommended that the builder buy his "carpenter" a Souber.

The above is not the only face palm moment. Door architraves with joins half the way along (unglued joins).

Architraves that don't maintain a constant distance from the door liner.



Pocket doors that can't be fully closed because the customer specified finger pull handles that are flush.

Pocket doors, the frame of which has been cut in to the plasterboard on one side but not the other.



To be fair most of the skirting boards are pretty good but some were glued using silicone and they have smeared silicone over the face of the skirting.

The door stops throughout are about 15(?)mm deep even though the doors are 30 mins fire check.

The customer wants all doors painted black but ordered white pre-primed doors. The customer has also specified water based paints. The doors that had been painted before I started all scratch if you run your finger nail over them.

On Saturday they needed to fit a door liner in the hallway. They then soon realised that the liner needed to be shunted by 10 inches. They ran an angle grinder down the wall and the carpenter proceeded to hack out the inch thick plaster. He didn't seem particularly bothered about the fact that the large lumps were crashing down on the vinyl strip flooring that had been fitted the day before. (No one was concerned about the amount of dust sent up the finished floor above.)

Needless to say there are lots of scratches in the new flooring.

I have worked on a few building sites. At this stage in the job, this is far and away the messiest and least organised site I have ever worked on. I can be painting a wall, the electrician will walk in and use an oscillating saw to move a light switch or use a hole saw to move a ceiling light fitting. He then whacks in "bonding/browning" plaster. If I catch him doing it, I scrape it flush before it sets.

Site PPE is limited to gloves- that's it. The "tiler" was angle grinding tiles and got a chip in his eye, he got a colleague to use his dirty fingers to try remove it. I have seen no evidence of a first aid kit. I have since found a small fire extinguisher.

One day I noticed that, after their running out of toilet paper, they were now flushing the blue paper down the loo. I sent a text to the guy paying me and informed him that blue paper doesn't break down in water and that he should get some loo paper before the sewer becomes blocked.

I was working in one of the bathrooms on Saturday, trying to force feed paint to the silicone used by the electrician to hold the ceiling extractor fan up, some guy walks in and started peeing in the loo right next to my step ladder. I climbed down and left the room.

Sorry about the rant, it is doing my head in. I don't want to let the building contractor down, but he is making unrealistic demands of his decorator and I. I left site at 14.30, having got there at 06.30. When I left, there will still architraves in some of the unfinished rooms that are 8mm away from the pocket door frames. Slightly more than "paint fill" me thinks...

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Hello there! Now you know how I feel about a lot of small builders*, and more than a few big ones (and why I avoided house bashing for a very long time)...

Personally I'd remove myself from the job, report the barstewards to the HSE and ask if they could get a walking inspector to make a call. You never know your luck. Me? I intend to draw breath and work for a few more years hence my take on this, but when the EU retained laws are scrapped (including all of our H&S legislation) this "builder", and his bunch of misfits, amateurs and wannabees will be in clover




* With apologies to those small builders on here who do give a damn about quality and safety, but TBH there are far too many in construction who don't give a tuppenuppeny damn for either

 

[opps]

Hello there! Now you know how I feel about a lot of small builders*, and more than a few big ones (and why I avoided house bashing for a very long time)...

Personally I'd remove myself from the job, report the barstewards to the HSE and ask if they could get a walking inspector to make a call. You never know your luck. Me? I intend to draw breath and work for a few more years hence my take on this, but when the EU retained laws are scrapped (including all of our H&S legislation) this "builder", and his bunch of misfits, amateurs and wannabees will be in clover




* With apologies to those small builders on here who do give a damn about quality and safety, but TBH there are far too many in construction who don't give a tuppenuppeny damn for either

I feel morally obliged to see the job through, but I will decline future work, not because of the H&SE side of things but because I am being asked to massively lower my standard of work.

I need to walk away at the end of each day feeling like I have provided a quality finish, perversely, if someone wants me to drop my standard, I want to be paid more than my regular rate to compensate for the lack of "satisfaction" in my work.

I am not a Marxist but top marks to the fellow. He talked about the intrinsic and extrinsic value of work- he posited that if someone enjoys their work, they gain "utility" (read: satisfaction) from the work (intrinsic value) and will demand less extrinsic value (read: wages).

If I enjoy my work, I am willing to accept a lower wage than a job that I hate. I appreciate that many people hate their jobs. I am lucky enough that I generally get to cherry pick jobs, and I like to think that is a function of having earned a reputation for providing a high quality of finish.