Spam emails

[Soggy_weetabix]

please go to www.419eater.com

Shivermetimbers

 

[DIYnot]

I believe it's been stated several times before, but just to confirm, we have not and will not ever sell or give your email addresses away to anyone, not even the moderators have access to your emails if made private. Hope that helps

 

[Softus]

Quite so.

It's also been stated that the creation of this topic in no way implies that DIYnot is responsible for the spam, whether directly or otherwise.

The posting of the topic as what appears to be a thinly-veiled complaint in Forum Information, instead of a request for help in Software, is just an unhappy accident.

 

[D_Hailsham]

When I joined this forum I specifically created a live.com email account dedicated exclusively for receiving any notifications from this forum

Is that Microsoft's live.com? If so it's a Hotmail account. i.e. webmail.

Wouldn't touch webmail with a bargepole - not enough spam etc filtering.

Use a proper SMTP mail provider.

 

[Softus]

Wouldn't touch webmail with a bargepole - not enough spam etc filtering.

As generalisations go, that's an invalid one, because it depends on the mail host.

For example, Demon offers a Webmail service, as do a great many SPs, and you can collect mail from the same mailbox on a POP3 connection. The Spam filters are very good.

Use a proper SMTP mail provider.

Don't ya just know that when someone says "proper" that they haven't thought things through.

 

[2scoops0406]

SMTP Simple Mail Transport Protocol. Hmm.

Not sophisticated, developed nearly 40 years ago, has no concept of spam etc.

 

[D_Hailsham]

SMTP Simple Mail Transport Protocol. Hmm.

Not sophisticated, developed nearly 40 years ago, has no concept of spam etc.

And how do you think email is transported between mail servers? Not by http but by SMTP. The protocol may not have any concept of spam, but that's not its job, which is to ensure the safe delivery of the email from one server to another. It has less knowledge of what is being transported than the postman who comes to your house.

If you have a POP3/SMTP client, e.g. Outlook, your email is sent to your mail provider using SMTP and you receive emails using POP3.

The spam, virus etc. filters are not part of the protocol they are added functionality to the programs which send and receive the emails.

Yes, some email providers have the option of collecting the email using a POP3 client. There is also the IMAP client. I don't know of any providers which support that protocol; it seems to be restricted to company email services running Exchange.

 

[2scoops0406]

SMTP Simple Mail Transport Protocol. Hmm.

Not sophisticated, developed nearly 40 years ago, has no concept of spam etc.

And how do you think email is transported between mail servers? Not by http but by SMTP. The protocol may not have any concept of spam, but that's not its job, which is to ensure the safe delivery of the email from one server to another. It has less knowledge of what is being transported than the postman who comes to your house.

If you have a POP3/SMTP client, e.g. Outlook, your email is sent to your mail provider using SMTP and you receive emails using POP3.

The spam, virus etc. filters are not part of the protocol they are added functionality to the programs which send and receive the emails.

Yes, some email providers have the option of collecting the email using a POP3 client. There is also the IMAP client. I don't know of any providers which support that protocol; it seems to be restricted to company email services running Exchange.

Yeah, I know that, but your point is ?

 

[Softus]

And how do you think email is transported between mail servers? Not by http but by SMTP. The protocol may not have any concept of spam, but that's not its job, which is to ensure the safe delivery of the email from one server to another.

SMTP doesn't ensure delivery at all, let alone "safe" delivery.

If you have a POP3/SMTP client, e.g. Outlook, your email is sent to your mail provider using SMTP and you receive emails using POP3.

Is there some point to this pseudo-lecture?

The spam, virus etc. filters are not part of the protocol they are added functionality to the programs which send and receive the emails.

That's an over-simplistic, and, in many cases, wrong, description of how the filtering works.

Yes, some email providers have the option of collecting the email using a POP3 client. There is also the IMAP client. I don't know of any providers which support that protocol; it seems to be restricted to company email services running Exchange.

Oh jeepers. Where do you get this nonsense from?

Firstly, Email hosts are not called "providers".

Secondly, loads of Email hosts offer delivery by IMAP.

Thirdly, whilst Exchange and Outlook both support IMAP, the proprietary and commonplace Outlook<-->Exchange connection is MAPI, not IMAP.

 

[2scoops0406]

Missed the bit about safe delivery, indeed STMP does not guarantee any delivery.

 

[D_Hailsham]

SMTP doesn't ensure delivery at all, let alone "safe" delivery.

RFC2821 April 2001
The objective of the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) is to transfer mail reliably and efficiently.

The spam, virus etc. filters are not part of the protocol they are added functionality to the programs which send and receive the emails.

That's an over-simplistic, and, in many cases, wrong, description of how the filtering works.

Please tell me the RFC of the protocol which incorporates spam/virus filtering.

Firstly, Email hosts are not called "providers".

I was simply meaning companies who provide an email service to customers.

Secondly, loads of Email hosts offer delivery by IMAP.

Thanks for the info; I just said that I did not know of many.

Thirdly, whilst Exchange and Outlook both support IMAP, the proprietary and commonplace Outlook<-->Exchange connection is MAPI, not IMAP.

MAPI is not a protocol unlike IMAP, it's just an API as its full title says - Messaging Application Programming Interface. It's what allows you to email document from within Word, Excel etc. The actual transport between Outlook and Exchange uses is carried out by RPC.

 

[Softus]

SMTP doesn't ensure delivery at all, let alone "safe" delivery.

RFC2821 April 2001
The objective of the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) is to transfer mail reliably and efficiently.

I can hardly believe that you're being such a dork. It's like being approached by a cockroach holding up a placard that says "stamp on me", and then stays still in readiness for my foot.

If you'd bothered to read the RFC, let alone become familiar with it, let alone write some software that implements it, then you might not have made the mistake of attempting to prove that you're right when you're unassailably wrong.

Have a go at reading this extract from the RFC:-

When an SMTP server returns a permanent error status (5yz) code after
the DATA command is completed with <CRLF>.<CRLF>, it MUST NOT make
any subsequent attempt to deliver that message. The SMTP client
retains responsibility for delivery of that message and may either
return it to the user or requeue it for a subsequent attempt (see
section 4.5.4.1).

In case you're not aware of it (oh, who are we kidding of course you're not aware of it), "reliable", in the context of communication protocols, means that either delivery (or connection) occurs or the failed attempt it reported to the initiator. It doesn't mean that you can rely on it being delivered. And that's leaving aside that you referred to the delivery as being "safe".

The spam, virus etc. filters are not part of the protocol they are added functionality to the programs which send and receive the emails.

That's an over-simplistic, and, in many cases, wrong, description of how the filtering works.

Please tell me the RFC of the protocol which incorporates spam/virus filtering.

That would be RFC Don't Be So Stupid.

Secondly, loads of Email hosts offer delivery by IMAP.

Thanks for the info; I just said that I did not know of many.

I can see why you want to think you wrote that, but here's what you actually wrote:

There is also the IMAP client. I don't know of any providers which support that protocol;

Thirdly, whilst Exchange and Outlook both support IMAP, the proprietary and commonplace Outlook<-->Exchange connection is MAPI, not IMAP.

MAPI is not a protocol unlike IMAP, it's just an API as its full title says - Messaging Application Programming Interface.

Nice try, but wrong again. The term "MAPI", especially when used in a sentence specifically about MS Outlook and MS Exchange, includes, unambiguously, a reference to Email transport.

But that was just a smokescreen from you anyway, to cover up your embarrassing howler. Let's have another look at that one - a kind of action replay, if you like.

There is also the IMAP client. I don't know of any providers which support that protocol; it seems to be restricted to company email services running Exchange.

 

[D_Hailsham]

If you'd bothered to read the RFC, let alone become familiar with it, let alone write some software that implements it

Presumably you have done all three!
What exactly is you professional expertise? An email expert? A plumbing expert? Or what?

SMTP Simple Mail Transport Protocol. Hmm.

Not sophisticated, developed nearly 40 years ago, has no concept of spam etc.

Please tell me the RFC of the protocol which incorporates spam/virus filtering.

That would be RFC Don't Be So Stupid.

So who are you calling stupid, yourself or 2scoops?

As the SMTP protocol does not cover spam etc, why don't you write one?

 

[Softus]

If you'd bothered to read the RFC, let alone become familiar with it, let alone write some software that implements it

Presumably you have done all three!

You can presume what you like.

What exactly is you professional expertise?

I am a What. My full job title is "What has it got to do with you?".

As the SMTP protocol does not cover spam etc, why don't you write one?

Are you going to pay me to do it?