Spurring off an existing ceiling rose to add an independent new light and switch

[mrmeeeow123456]

Hello, any help or advice would be warmly welcomed.

I'm trying to spur off an existing light rose so that I can install an independently controlled light and switch.

The cable I'm using is 1mm twin core and earth, brown/blue.
I've followed the instructions below but have had no success

Just to point out at the existing rose I want to spur off, there is a black wire with a brown sheath wired to the 2 terminal block along with the brown wire from the pendant (photo below)

Instructions I've followed

Run a length of 1mm2 cable from the ceiling rose to the position where it will connect to the existing lighting circuit. Prepare both ends of the new length of cable (see Preparing cable for connection) and at the ceiling rose connect the red conductor in the same terminal block as the one from the switch. Connect the black conductor to the other 3 terminal block. Finally connect the earth conductor to the earth terminal with the other earth conductor from the switch.

The remaining connection to be made at the ceiling rose is the connection to the bulbholder. See Connecting a flex to a bulbholder for details on how to do this. Connect the brown conductor from the bulbholder flex to the 2 terminal block with the black conductor from the switch. Connect the blue conductor to the 3 terminal connection block with the black conductors from the other cables. Finally connect the earth (green/yellow) conductor to the earth terminal with the other earth conductors. On the ceiling rose there are two lugs, one on either side, hook the brown and blue conductors around the lugs to prevent strain on the terminals. The case from the ceiling rose can now be screwed in place.

SWITCH OFF ELECTRICITY AT THE MAINS

The mains electricity should now be switched off and the fuse for the circuit you are working on should be removed. Now connect the new circuit to the existing lighting circuit. As mentioned previously there are three ways of doing this, you should already have decided which method you are using..

Connecting to an existing loop in rose Ensure the mains supply is still switched off. Unscrew the ceiling rose of the light to be connected revealing the terminals. Pass new cable through to the terminals from above. The red conductor should be connected to the central three terminal block with the other red (live) conductors. The black conductor should be attached to the three terminal block with the other black conductors and the blue conductor going to the light flex. Finally connect the earth conductor with the other earth conductors into the large screw terminal. The cover to the ceiling rose can now be replaced.

Connecting to an existing junction box

Ensure the mains supply is still switched off. Remove the cover of the junction box. Connect the red conductor of the new cable to the screw terminal with the three or more red conductors. Connect the black conductor with all the other black conductors and connect the earth conductor covered in a green/yellow sheath with other earth conductors to the earth terminal. Replace the cover of the junction box.


Can you advise please

 

[opps]

I am not an electrician...

I think you need to take a live from the two reds in image three, run the live to the switch, and from there run the switched live to the new rose, plus a neutral from the old rose.

 

[Jurassicspark]

The easiest method will be to get the supply from the permanent live from the existing ceiling rose (loop terminal) and the neutral from the N terminal.

Run the cable to the new ceiling rose, brown to loop and blue to neutral. Get another piece of cable and connect one core to the LOOP terminal and the other to the LINE terminal (where your new light will be connected.)

Run the new cable to the new switch and connect one wire to COM and the other to L1.

 

[ericmark]

I seem to remember doing this to show where to take off the power. As to how you wire after that point, you can use a ceiling rose as the junction box, or the switch back box as a junction box, which you use is up to you. Using the ceiling rose, you connect the cable from the old rose to the same connections on the new rose. Then take a cable to the switch which will connect the centre terminal to outer.

See here for how lights are wired

 

[ericmark]

I have looked at the ceiling rose picture again

and it seems to be wired as standard, so looking at this

you're existing is what is shown as kitchen, and your adding dining room. Can't understand how you can get it wrong, what are you using to test with?

 

[securespark]

Pictures, please!

 

[ericmark]

Pictures, please!

Shuss, they said on Screwfix, and he left and came here.

 

[mrmeeeow123456]

Haha is this the same site as screwfix?

Yes I asked on there but I can't get the advice to work, so tried on this one just in case someone had a different idea/approach

I'm grateful to anyone who attempts to help me out..

Thought the layout looked familiar lol

 

[ericmark]

No, not same site, but some of us use both sites.

 

[blup]

As said spur new cable off the rose to the new rose and set up the live/switched live to the switch (new cable) and live and neutral to the pendant. As an aside I visited Bletchley Park recently, the Enigma machine has trillions of combinations, but understanding British domestic wiring for lights wierdly helped me understand Enigma