Steel beam or not?

[spelbound1973]

Hello all.

Currently planning to get a builder to renovate our kitchen and we are taking the opportunity to knock through to a very odd little room that is just wasted space. The dividing wall is supporting a clinker wall above and the builder and building control surveyor have both said an rsj is needed. We have no issue with this.

However, the kitchen has walled pantry. The left wall is part of the wall we are already taking out, but the right hand wall is in line with a very small wall above in the bathroom. This wall in the bathroom and the kitchen below are both 78cm and attach to an outside wall.

My question is this: given such a short length, is a steel joist required or would simply leaving a nib provide sufficient support? Can you suggest any alternatives other than a beam or post?

Information that might help:
The joists run in the same direction as both walls to be removed

The exterior is cast concrete and all internal walls appear to be clinker

Due to the 8 week lead time on a new kitchen we are trying to get a head of the game so we spend as little time without a kitchen as possible. Obviously for an effective design we need to know if we will have a nib, the full 78cm wall or something else.

 

[^woody^]

A steel beam lintel with 100mm bearing should suffice if the loading is uniform along it's whole length. Nibs are rarely needed for normal loading, but we don't know all the details.

Do you need a structural engineer to advise or is the building inspector just going to agree your or your builder's say so?

 

[spelbound1973]

Do you need a structural engineer to advise or is the building inspector just going to agree your or your builder's say so?

Inspector will just agree by sound of it. This is why I'm keen to ensure it is done right. Only issue with using a beam is that (and this is an assumption) it would need to go the full width of the room (3.38m). This seems overkill for a 78cm wall. I've told by the builder that a nib is required because it is an external concrete wall.

 

[^woody^]

Some sort of plan showing the walls and beam location would help.

What's an external concrete wall - poured concrete, precast panels?

 

[spelbound1973]

So the green wall is the one being taken out that we already know needs a beam.

The red wall is the one in question, with a short section of the bathroom wall directly above. Seeing this I'm sure you understand my reluctance to use a beam if possible as it would span 3.38m

The yellow walls are actually one - I've just depicted

[/IMG] the sections either side of the door in this wall.

Exterior wall is B, which is poured concrete (circa 1963).

 

[spelbound1973]

Some sort of plan showing the walls and beam location would help.

What's an external concrete wall - poured concrete, precast panels?

See above, forgot to quote you.

Oh, and joists run left to right.

 

[^woody^]

A nib would be out of the question and you would need to leave the whole short section of wall in the kitchen to support the wall above.

Either of which would look crap anyway.

Normally you would need a beam spanning across the kitchen for that, and that could potentially be knocked in to the external wall with no nib for a bearing.

Could the wall upstairs be replaced for a timber stud wall and then you could support this off noggins between two joists?

 

[spelbound1973]

A nib would be out of the question and you would need to leave the whole short section of wall in the kitchen to support the wall above.

Either of which would look crap anyway.

Normally you would need a beam spanning across the kitchen for that, and that could potentially be knocked in to the external wall with no nib for a bearing.

Could the wall upstairs be replaced for a timber stud wall and then you could support this off noggins between two joists?

Thanks for all your help.

Yes, the wall above could be replaced for stud. Unfortunately the bathroom is the only room in the house (following purchase) that does not need anything doing to it and includes a sealed floor (wet room). I'm therefore reluctant to do this.

Armed with the information you've give us, what I think we'll do is stick with the 78cm wall and just incorporate it into the kitchen somehow and turn it into a 'feature'.

 

[geraldthehamster]

The 3380 beam might seem excessive, but if you're ripping everything out anyway it's not going to be hugely disruptive, so why not just do it? Rather than have a random odd bit of wall eating into your otherwise McCloud-compliant open-plan kitchen?

 

[Footsoldier888]

Don't spoil the ship for a ha'penny of tar.