Stopcock between lead pipe and copper pipe, wont turn off.

[broontroot]

I'm a diy'er who's in the process of fitting a bathroom suite and shower cubicle, but things are not going to plan......

The main stop-cock,where it comes into the house was very reluctant to turn off, it didn't feel just right, and took me ages to turn it off best i could .
Unfortunately, when i turned it back on later it developed a leak, a constant drip, the bugger filled a casserole dish every 20 mins!
I managed(eventually) to unscrew the brass nut(or what was left of it)and twist plumbers tape around the shaft of the handle,before screwing in the brass nut, the leak has stopped for now, but i don't trust it, and still, the water supply won't turn off!
I have took the cap of the outside stopcock, but no way can i get the 6 foot long key to locate/mate up with anything down the hole.

Basically, what i'm asking is, if i am unable to turn the water off outside, is there an easy way for me to repair or renew the stopcock pictured, or is it a job for a plumber?
The pipe below the stopcock is lead, the pipe above is copper.
My dad was told sometimes a plumber can freeze the pipes to renew the stopcock, is this correct?
If i do need a plumber, which looks likely, how much would i be expected to pay?

Thanks for any advice offered.

 

[Dan Robinson]

To freeze the pipe you will need a good 6" freely available under the stop cock. You might be able to remove the mechanism from the cock body, but you risk damqging the seal with the lead pipe.

Are you sure your external stop cock is 6 feet down?


To get the work in the barhrooo. Moving soon you could turn off the internal cock as best as possible and insert a nice lever valve above it quickly.

Then get the eexternal one repaired / replaced and sort the lead pipe out properly (get rid of it ).

 

[HERTS P&D]

Yes we can........................freeze it.

I have a Freeze Master that can freeze in coming water mains.
I would charge you between £150-£200 to freeze your pipe work and supply and fit a new stopcock & leadloc.

It is not a job for the DIYer, phone around for a plumber who has a freeze machine.

Andy

 

[dcawkwell]

Ring your water board and say you are unable to turn off the water at the outside stop tap.
They will come around and replace/fix it.

Do it properly then replace the old stop valve with a new one or go above
it and add another stop valve in above it once you can switch it off
in the street properly.

 

[broontroot]

Dan_Robinson
The outside stopcock is probably 4 feet down, maybe more, as i've got around 1 - 2 foot of key above ground level, it's quite difficult to see down the hole, plus there is around 9 inches of water lying down there,so i can't see what the key is meant to be locating.


HERTSDRAINAGE2010

£150 - £200 quid,? hope i don't need to spend that much, but if needs must..... Thanks for the info.

dcawkwell

From what i've read i'm responsible for the outside stopcock as it is within my garden/boundary, the waterboard are responsible for any waterpipes/stopcocks out on the pavement or road.

Thanks again lads!

 

[dcawkwell]

Dan_Robinson
The outside stopcock is probably 4 feet down, maybe more, as i've got around 1 - 2 foot of key above ground level, it's quite difficult to see down the hole, plus there is around 9 inches of water lying down there,so i can't see what the key is meant to be locating.


HERTSDRAINAGE2010

£150 - £200 quid,? hope i don't need to spend that much, but if needs must..... Thanks for the info.

dcawkwell

From what i've read i'm responsible for the outside stopcock as it is within my garden/boundary, the waterboard are responsible for any waterpipes/stopcocks out on the pavement or road.

Thanks again lads!

The water board are responsible for the stop tap that supplies your house that is connected to the main. It might be on the road or on your property but it is still their responsibility to provide you with a working stop tap.

 

[broontroot]

Hi dcawkwell

It seems not in the case of Scottishwater

Unless maybe i'm reading it wrong?

It's the stopcock in my garden that i can't get turned off for now, though i'll have another go later.

http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-home/pipework-responsibility

Thanks

 

[dcawkwell]

Hi dcawkwell

It seems not in the case of Scottishwater

Unless maybe i'm reading it wrong?

It's the stopcock in my garden that i can't get turned off for now, though i'll have another go later.

http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-home/pipework-responsibility

Thanks

There will always be a stop cock (4) that you can switch the water off at and is the responsibility of scottish water to ensure works. You need to switch this stop cock (4) off. If you can't scottish water will come out and fix it.

 

[rjm2k]

Not sure this helps in your situation but I had a frozen stop cock and was saved when I realised the fitting they used for our under sink water meter has its own isolation so I can turn the water off with a simple turn of a screw driver.

 

[FiremanT]

Hi dcawkwell

It seems not in the case of Scottishwater

Unless maybe i'm reading it wrong?

It's the stopcock in my garden that i can't get turned off for now, though i'll have another go later.

http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-home/pipework-responsibility

Thanks

I thoink you ARE reading it wtongly! The SWB is reponsible for the stopcock/meter (4), which is what is 4 feet down, so they should make sure that that is operable.YOU are responsible for stopvalve (2), which is the one inside your home that you have been trying to repair. So get the WB to repair (4), so you can turn it off, and allow you to replace (2). You may get some more advice about the best way to replace the (2), when isolated.

 

[broontroot]

Thanks for the advice,..... i phoned Scottishwater today, and they said they would get someone out to have a look tomorrow, with a view to possibly raising the stopcock, or at minimum, confirming where it is and getting it working,at no cost to myself.

 

[stardanny]

The pipe below the stopcock is lead, the pipe above is copper.

Are you sure it's copper above? I could be wrong but it look like iron pipe.

Dan.

 

[broontroot]

stardanny

you had me wondering there, but i've gave it a scrape and it is a copper pipe. It is clearly seen as copper 1 foot above the valve, but must agree it doesn't look copper in the pic.

FiremanT

i phoned Scottishwater ,not the news i was hoping for,................. Scottishwater came out and the chap said that as the outside stopcock is on private property it is the house owners responsibility,not theirs.
Although i had the key there, he couldn't try to locate the valve for me, and confirmed it was way to deep.

There are 10 houses in the street, all in a row, ie 1-10, and he explained the main water supply pipe goes right up the back gardens,and not running up the front pavement or road.
He also showed me the arial view on his laptop.

He did take me to the bottom of the road and removed a cast iron cover, explaining i could turn it off there,but i'd obviously need to have a plumber handy to replace my kitchen stop valve,and obviously i'd have to inform the other 9 neighbours in the street.

He gave me the dimensions of the key needed to reach the square shaft, so i can buy, borrow or make one, and also said if i had any bother, to phone him to arrange a time when he was available and i had a plumber available,and that he would come and turn off water for me.

Ah well, it was worth a try.

Looks like 2 options, either do that, or get a plumber with a freeze kit.

 

[broontroot]

Update-

Finally managed to turn the outside stopcock, i cut the pouring end off a plastic Ribena bottle, just the very tapered end, and tape it to the end of a 6 foot section of plastic water pipe, with the bottle lid pointing downwards,.....i used this to clear most of the mud on top of the stopcock.
Took me ages only removing probably half a cupfull at a time, but i got there eventually.

Can anyone tell me if the stopvalve in the photo is repairable, the one in my kitchen?
Or would i be just as well to fit a new gate-valve onto the 22mm copper pipe above the old stopvalve?

 

[dcawkwell]

Update-

Finally managed to turn the outside stopcock, i cut the pouring end off a plastic Ribena bottle, just the very tapered end, and tape it to the end of a 6 foot section of plastic water pipe, with the bottle lid pointing downwards,.....i used this to clear most of the mud on top of the stopcock.
Took me ages only removing probably half a cupfull at a time, but i got there eventually.

Can anyone tell me if the stopvalve in the photo is repairable, the one in my kitchen?
Or would i be just as well to fit a new gate-valve onto the 22mm copper pipe above the old stopvalve?

If you have good flow then fit a new stop valve above it.
Otherwise proper job would be replace the valve. Time consuming.