Strange Worcester Bosch Greenstar Fault

Hi Jonathan,

I see. Yes, he's here now. Turns out that there is a third zone valve (I thought there were just two) and the microswitch has a fault.

Luckily my local Screwfix (8 mins away) has a replacement powerhead and he's just gone to get it to fit this evening.

Hopefully, we'll be back to fully-working shortly.

Third Valve (1).JPG


Third valve minus powerhead (hiding behind hot water cylinder)

Third Valve (2).JPG


Third valve's powerhead

Many thanks for your help & input - much appreciated.

Dave
 
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Despite the new powerhead, the CH is still not working correctly and the engineer has now gone home.

The boiler is burning gas (I went outside to confirm that hot exhaust gas is coming out of the vent) and it is telling me that the CH temperature is 68C but all radiators are cold.

Possibly he changed the powerhead on the wrong valve?

The only way to stop the boiler burning gas is to turn the whole system off at the mains.

*sigh*

XRD
 
Go feel the pipes that go into, and out of the cylinder coil. If they are hot the hot water zone valve is probably firing up the boiler.
Are the heating thermostats/ programmer calling for heat ?
 
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Would not turn the boiler off at the mains. Boiler has a frost stat which kicks in when it drops below a certain temperature. If boiler gets very cold, damp can affect the circuit board on the fan and cause it to fail. As a temporary measure you could just lower the temperature on ch to 30 until you get the problem sorted.
 
Would not turn the boiler off at the mains. Boiler has a frost stat which kicks in when it drops below a certain temperature. If boiler gets very cold, damp can affect the circuit board on the fan and cause it to fail. As a temporary measure you could just lower the temperature on ch to 30 until you get the problem sorted.
Do you mean to set the CH temperature on the boiler to 30C?

I don't hold much hope for this. CH on boiler is set to 65C (see earlier post this thread) and this afternoon, the temperature reported by the boiler was just over 70C.

Currently, the boiler (with programmer/timers and thermostats off or turned righ down) is burning gas (as evidenced by the flame icon on the boiler and hot flue gases) but the rads are cold. Hot water is also turned off.

Something is amiss and given the current cost of energy, I'm not going to let the boiler run all night burning gas and doing absolutely nothing by way of heating that I can tell.

We have Home Emergency Cover on the House Insurance which covers the heating. I'll give them a bell tomrrow morning. If the boiler being off causes the circuitboard on the fan to fail, that would be covered under the warranty surely (boiler has at least a 5-10 yr guarantee, possibly as much as 12 years and it was fitted in May 2020 and has been serviced in May 21 and June 22).

Dave
 
Go feel the pipes that go into, and out of the cylinder coil. If they are hot the hot water zone valve is probably firing up the boiler.
Are the heating thermostats/ programmer calling for heat ?
Nope.

Programmer/timers and room stats not calling for heat, but boiler is burning gas (flame icon in display and hot flue gases) and I can hear the bellows in the gas meter sighing regularly but the radiators are cold.

Will turn the mains on, verify it is doing what I've just said in the above paragraph and check the pipes into the HW cylinder.

Will report back.

UPDATE: Just turned the mains supply to the boiler back on. Programmer/timers & room stats off or turned right down. Hot water programmer is OFF. Pipe rising from boiler up to the HW cylinder is hot to the touch - too hot to leave your fingers on it. Boiler has been running for less than 5 mins and was reporting at temperature approachibg 50C when I went to check the pipes to the HW cylinder.

Wiill try turning both the CH and HW down on the boiler from their current settings of 65 and 60C respectively and see what happens.

UPDATE 2: Turned the CH down as low as it would go (30C) and the HW to OFF. Flame icon has gone off now and temperature indication (with flashing radiator icon) slowly going down (currently at 57C and falling).

Seems like a zone valve is still calling for heat - but the valve is closed so the radiators remain cold as there is nowhere for the hot water to go. Looks like the engineer changed the wrong powrhead. Does that make sense??

Dave
 
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Either the hot water motorised valve is keeping the boiler running ,or it's as
ianmcd suggested yesterday, there is a voltage present that shouldn't be enough to fire the boiler ,but it is.
A multimeter used to check voltages present at the wiring centre would confirm this.
Is there a reason why you are not using the central heating
( Programmer/ stats off) ??
 
Check your insurance policy for "heating" as it probabley covers your boiler only and not the controls
 
Home Energency T&Cs says ...

'What is Covered

Primary Heating System

Complete failure or breakdown of either the heating or hot water supply provided by the primary heating system'

As the boilser is burning gas to no effect and the DHW is getting far too hot I'm guessing something has 'broken down' so we'l see when I give them a ring later.

UPDATE: Hot water is turned off at the programmer/timer and on the boiler.

Radiators heat up if room stats call for heat.

Radiators cold if stat set too high (as you'd expect) BUT the boiler continues to burn gas even though it isn't (apparebtly) heating anything (temp on boiler exceeds set point).

Trying to get the Home Emergency Cover to send a heating engineer - success!

Let's see what they say!

XRD
 
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Well...

Home Emergency Cover was a bit of a bust.

Sure, they came out but as soon as they were told that an engineer had come out on Monday (i.e. the previous day), they wouldn't touch it - even though the heating was faulty.

Usual story - anything an insurance company can do to avoid paying out a claim (or in this case, doing something under the terms of the policy) they find a way to wriggle out of their obligation. They are less ethical than bank robbers imho.

Anyhow, our engineer returned Friday to sort out the issue (he'd had a domestic issue on the Monday which meant that he was keen to return home and didn't do his customary checks to make sure the issue was fixed before leaving. He 'fixed' what he thought was the problem then left thinking it was sorted (it wasn't).

So, on Friday he finds two issues with the CH system.

1) The room stat on the main heating zone (basement floor and ground floor) was apparently closed all of the time

and

2) One of the zone valves was very stiff - meaning that the powerhead could open the valve but the return spring wasn't strong enough to close the valve again when required - meaning the valve was permanently in the open position and allowing water to flow around the DHW cylinder - with the result that the DHW was constantly too hot - heading towards 60C coming out of the tap despite the DHW being turned off at the boiler.

Could the permanently open valve have caused the room stat to weld closed? I can't actually get inside the thermostat to see what the contacts are actually doing (I can get inside the thermostat but the contacts appear to be inside a small black box - looking rather like a relay).

So new mechanical valve and a new room stat and the heating now seems to be doing what it should.

However, the new room stat doesn't seem to be at all accurate - it seems to be around 3-4C "too high" (in other words it is saying that the temperature is 20C when two liquid thermometers are saying 16C and 17C).

Is there any way to adjust these? The thermostat in question is this one from Screwfix >> DRAYTON RTS1 ROOM THERMOSTAT

It looks like there isn't a way to alter the stat so that the point at which it switches matches the room temperature!

Is this a 'known issue' with these thermostats?


The old thermostat was an ACL RTS 1 (see below)

ACL 1.JPG


ACL 2.JPG


I may have a look at the RTS2 >> Drayton RTS2 and see if that is any better.

Also possibly looking at a digital thermostat such as the Honeywell Home (DT90?)

The old ACL and new RTS1 have only 3 wires - neutral and live feed and a switched live to boiler.

Looking at the DT90 wiring diagrams - it doesn't seem to be as simple as just swapping them over - none of the 6 diagrams (a - f) seem to match the wiring I have for the current stat.

DT90 Wiring Diagrams.jpg


If I chose the DT90 Digital Thermostat - how simple would it be for me to swap the stats over?

Any help gratefully received (and comments about the 3-4C difference between the room temperature and the RTS-1 setting. Have I simply got a bad example?)

Wiring for room stat (and rear of new RTS-1) are below:

Room Stat Wiring.JPG


RTS-1 Connections.JPG


Cheers,

XRD
 
First question (did hot water weld the roomstat up) no of course not.
The stiff valve might have been pulling excess current (unlikely, the motors are designed to stall).
Room stat. Turn it up til you are comfortable, ignore the numbers. If it maintains your comfortable temperature then leave it be, mark your setpoint on the dial if you want.
 
Thank you for the replies.

Any advice on wiring up the Honeywell Home DT90?

Cheers,

XRD
 
Dropped into Screwfix today and bought a second Drayton RTS 1.

This one 'clicks' at a more believable temperature so I'm guessing that the one fitted on Friday 10th is either faulty (although it seems to work okay) or not calibrated correctly (but I couldn't see anything that I could adjust to sort this out).

On the plus side, price has dropped around £1.50 since last Friday so a doulbe bonus.

Last Friday's unit is goung back - as faulty - and I get a properly working unit at a cheaper price!

That's a win in my book.

XRD
 
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