Subway

[LastMagicBean]

Yet you publicly support the worst racist on this forum and criticise me for trying to stop it.

But the worst racist on this forum is YOU.

 

[RogueHanger]

Yet you publicly support the worst racist on this forum and criticise me for trying to stop it.

But the worst racist on this forum is YOU.

What a dopey claim.

Prove your point, then, if You can!

And I'll prove how racially prejudiced you are.

 

[RogueHanger]

How may more times ffs

I attack or support the post, not the poster, or I can just be ambivalent. Silence is neither an endorsement nor support of anyone’s post Mr. Hanger! Is this where you’re confusion lies? If I thought Norco, or anyone else, was an a-hole I would say - and I would hope to be treated the same way by him or anyone else if I made an asinine post; no umbrage taken! Get it? Got it? Good! Now please don’t make me repeat this again.

What an utter hypocritical charlatan!
You constantly criticise me for wanting to eradicate racism. There can be no such thing as aiming to reduce it. The objective must be to eradicate it completely and you suggest that I'm on a hiding to nothing.
Meanwhile, you repeatedly support the comments and criticisms of the racially abusive posters.

You've said you abhor racism, now prove it. You have continually disproved it so far.

Do I have to shoot every damn poster down in flames who I think is wrong to satiate your desire recruiting the anti-racist brigade? I seriously don’t have the time or inclination bud! I go at you more than most lately because of your ridiculous mission to “eradicate” racism like some self-appointed forum police. Let it go - it’s just a forum, a bloody good one but don’t lose sight of what it is. As Dale Carnegie said, “You cannot win an argument. The only way is to avoid it”.

Exactly. You don't have time to try to eradicate racism but you sure as hell have time to challenge me! Walk the walk, or stop pretending to be something that you're not.

We all, on General Discussion, don’t avoid arguments because it is effectively anonymous. So we get into keyboard bravado and no one ever concedes and I’ll ignore you and call you an a-hole and you’re a bigot I’m a bigot and.......

So you think it's OK to use racially abusive comments on anonymous forums?
Apart from that it's not so anonymous when you have a username like Big Tone and state that you work for NHS in Birmingham!

Oh and while I’m here let’s clarify something else, and to be fair I’ve heard this levelled at me in the past. I don’t often knowingly do U-turns or switching sides or swerving, or whatever else someone wants to call it. I do, however, reserve the right to “swerve” or do a complete U-turn if I get something wrong or in light of new evidence etc. (That should be laudable.). So if I look like I’m supporting someone or their post and then I disagree, it is to my or anyone’s credit that they change. You can call that what you will. Get it? Got it? Good!

Isn't it funny though how you repeatedly criiticse and impugn me for wanting to eradicate racism and you don't criticise the racially abusive posts. Think about it, BT!

Now please don’t make me repeat this again either.

Yes, BT you do need to keep repeating it 'cos you sure ain't acting like it.
Allow me to remind you, only 24 hours ago how you were belittling racism, as though it's just a fashion:

No-one knows what racism is anymore. It's a minefield of do-gooding nonsense.

And woe betide you if you dare to make a joke. Ok, I woe...

It’s taken the lead as the highest and most common form of izm in the charts. (HERE). We’ve got ones from the past, present and ones yet to be recognised. It’ll change over time as-and-when people get over themselves…

You have come across as detestable at times but I have agreed with you when I think you are right. Correct? Happened in the past 24 hours in fact, but I won’t hold my breath for a yes or no to that one. If I am the "biggest most despicable hypocrite" you know you should get out more. It’s a shame you don’t give more credit where due; but everyone on GD is an a-hole except you I guess...

Actually your claim to agreeing with me needed a little explanation.
So to claim that you agreed with me was not totally obvious, now was it?

I think you're coming across as more hypocritical with each post.

You still havent' given a simple yes or no to the questions that I put to you. It's not dificult.
Just a Yes or a No to the following:
Will you oppose me in my attempt to eradicate racism, at least in GD forum on DIYnot?
Or will you support me?
Or will you agree with my objectives, but disagree with my methods?

Your behaviour so far illustrates your position. So a failure to answer leaves me to make an assumption.

 

[Big Tone]

You still havent' given a simple yes or no to the questions that I put to you. It's not dificult.
Just a Yes or a No to the following:

Hang on! Do my eyes deceive me YOU ARE ASKING ME FOR A SIMPLE YES OR NO! Let me jog your flagging memory. Do you remember why I posted this? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk

So I’ll tell you what. I will give you a straight answer if you return the favour over whether YOU think PA discriminates? Not any Law, not more woffle or weezle words, just a simple Yes or no like you have asked of me? (He wont).

Sound familiar does it Rogue and see your hypocrisy now? How does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot? Come on now, be a good boy, the world is watching.

I’m happy to give you straight yes or no answers if you are? (Quid pro quo). You just said so yourself, it’s very simple. I’ll give you a brief recap to show you the error of your ways and thinking...

We can’t decide what we are born like. Colour, gender, disability, sexual orientation and on and on... Therefore, as long as you favour one person over another purely on accident of birth, which ever way you cut it you have discriminated - whether you like it or not! It, PA, might be better or fairer, no argument there because I think it is fairer. But not to the person who didn’t get the job it isn’t!!! (DISCRIMINATION by definition).

You, sir, are living in denial. You think that discriminating over something which is out of our control but wrapped up in sanctimonious semantics, called positive action, it somehow isn’t discrimination. And you wonder why people call you a racist.

For the record, I don’t think you are at all! (Is that defending you? Happy to oblige). But I can see why you are getting the heat here and I don’t think it’s just from racists.

 

[EddieM]

Sandwich, anyone?

 

[Big Tone]

Sandwich, anyone?

Oi you! I can't help it. Tell RH to back off...

Add: Okay, I sense you really like my woffle Eddie. So let me bring it down a gear without barbed comments towards RH.

You don’t stamp out racism IMHO, you can only attempt to prohibit racist behaviours. Someone either is or isn’t, as I have already said in another thread; I believe it’s in someone’s heart and head. So if they are racist the best thing you or I can do is tell people when you see it or distance yourself from them or it.

But, and here I go again, where we differ is that I understand this is just a forum and on every forum I have ever been on, people are entitled to be arrogant, ignorant, vulgar, sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist, fatist. – pretty much anything they want within the constraints of the forum rules. The very fact that all this crap hasn’t been censored suggests we are, and have been, within the forum guidelines or given some slack where appropriate. (And the Mods and Admin do a fine job IMO).

You are on a mission to stamp out racism on a forum, fair enough and good on ya, and just because I don’t demonstrate the same fervour and obsession as you I am not “walking the walk”. By this I take it to mean by virtue of not ‘getting in their face’ with you I support racism. Well okay; that’s your opinion of me and your prerogative to say so. I just don’t want to ally myself with someone so obsessed with one of the very many wrongs in life and I am still unconvinced as to whether you are a troll or not. (Why were you banned, if that was indeed the case, and had to go through a name change?). Not being mean, just asking and you don't have to answer.

Moving on and still being nice about it: Do you honestly think that any lurker would not recognise a racist remark or poster without your intervention here? You see I actually give the viewing public more credit than you perhaps do. What’s more, if they are so thick as to not recognise it for themselves are your posts really going to change anything or just go over their heads? So I just see it for what it is, a forum where posters you might feel are objectionable and obnoxious get into an e-room where you would otherwise never enter in real life. So of course sparks will fly, but they have the same freedom of speech we have here. What’s that one about ‘I may hate what you stand for and say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it’ (Something like that). Hope that helps with where I am coming from a little and I’ll try not to topic drift again...

 

[JBR]

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you are all wasting your breath, or your finger muscles, by trying to talk sense to him.

 

[LastMagicBean]

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you are all wasting your breath, or your finger muscles, by trying to talk sense to him.

Agreed.

Let's stop talking about this racism nonsense, and just get back to Subway and those bloody muslims.

 

[Big Tone]

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you are all wasting your breath, or your finger muscles, by trying to talk sense to him.

I think I'm finally there now JB. I dread wondering what's next; his next reply.

I've had heated arguments before but this just makes me want to tug on my testicles with a pair of Mole grips...

I actually like Subway, Italian BLT is my favourite and I really got into them when I lived in California. I was really chuffed to see them come over hear around 2002ish. Well, was my favourite. I'll boycott them from now on.

 

[RogueHanger]

You still havent' given a simple yes or no to the questions that I put to you. It's not dificult.
Just a Yes or a No to the following:

Hang on! Do my eyes deceive me YOU ARE ASKING ME FOR A SIMPLE YES OR NO! Let me jog your flagging memory. Do you remember why I posted this? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk

So I’ll tell you what. I will give you a straight answer if you return the favour over whether YOU think PA discriminates? Not any Law, not more woffle or weezle words, just a simple Yes or no like you have asked of me? (He wont).

I've already said "No!" many times. But for the umpteenth time: PA does not discriminate! I don't think PA discriminates.
If you look back you'll see how many times I'd said NO! Additionally, I gave you several examples and analogies to explain how PA does not discriminate.
You'll even recall that you finally accepted that I'd said NO many times.

It was exactly this reason why I've asked you for some straight answers.
Now will you give me a Yes or a No to my questions to you?

Sound familiar does it Rogue and see your hypocrisy now? How does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot? Come on now, be a good boy, the world is watching.

Hardly hypochrisy, BT. I'm asking you for exactly the same reasons that you asked me. I did answer you several times. You just refused to accept it. That's not hypochrisy, that's just refusing to accept the answer that you wanted

I’m happy to give you straight yes or no answers if you are? (Quid pro quo). You just said so yourself, it’s very simple. I’ll give you a brief recap to show you the error of your ways and thinking...

You aren't giving me a recap of anything. You're giving me your version of what you hoped you'd said.
I was fully aware of the discourse. But as you aren't providing a genuine recap I'll provide a recap for you and of how many times I gave you a straight answer. first your version of the discussion, then the real quotes:

We can’t decide what we are born like. Colour, gender, disability, sexual orientation and on and on... Therefore, as long as you favour one person over another purely on accident of birth, which ever way you cut it you have discriminated - whether you like it or not! It, PA, might be better or fairer, no argument there because I think it is fairer. But not to the person who didn’t get the job it isn’t!!! (DISCRIMINATION by definition).

As it's not clear where your supposed recap starts, or ends. I'll assume that this is the end of your supposed recap. I'll provide the real quotes for you now:

I think, BT, you’re either being intentionally deceitful, obtuse or squirming.

Your recent question, asked repeatedly was:

Or whether you can answer a direct question with a direct answer without resorting to irrelevant and verbose straw-man argument.

Does Positive Action Discriminate? Yes or no?

Page 42 and again Page 42:

I wanted to know if you think PA discriminates.
You keep trying to qualify every answer with a straw man argument instead of a direct "Yes" or "No".
Does Positive Action discriminate? YES OR NO?
I am not asking about the law!!! I am asking YOU!

And again Page 43:

Does Positive Action discriminate? Yes or no?

And again, Page 43

Again, I am asking YOU if YOU think PA is discriminatory? Yes or No?

And again, Page 43:

Yes or no RH? Do you think PA discriminates? Yes or No?

And again, Page 43:

How much easier would it have been to give an answer starting yes or no without repeating the question???
But he didnt; just as I knew he wouldn't. Neither a 'yes' or 'no' appeared in his answer.

And again, Page 44, only this time, almost immediately after my post saying “I think that PA does not discriminate.”

What a cop-out!
So you cannot say the word yes or no then; that much is obvious. That’s okay, I get it. (I think we all do). Instead of a yes or no you just re-post what you have already said, and you have the nerve to accuse others of making a circular argument or dragging the thread out.

I can't recall the number of times that I've given you my opinion: PA does not discriminate!

Now you claim that the question was really somewhere in this thread, Page 38:

The quote that you claim was the question that you asked, reprinted here as you did, came on Page 38

I'm not fixated on PD anymore. You have explained your change on that Rogue, to your credit. So that's history as far as I'm concerned. I'm focusing on Positive Action alone now and still think it discriminates.

Minority group aside, if you have two "equally qualified" candidates and you favour one over the other, the 'loser' HAS been discriminated against just because of accident of birth!

Here it is RH. What can't speak can't lie.

"In the United Kingdom in Harriet Harman's Equality Act 2010 ss 158-159, the term is used in the context of employment to allow selection of a candidate from an "under-represented" group, so long as he or she is no less than equally qualified compared to another potential candidate that is not from the under-represented group"

"Under-represented" is not some sort of trump card that makes it NOT discriminatory! It just makes it a matter of legality. By definition though, it has discriminated!

If you address this point directly I don't think you'd be getting such heat here. (But I will remain civil).

Now can you see a question in there, ‘cos I can’t!

Now I’ve been trying over many, many pages, with umpteen analogies, examples and illustrations, to show why and how PA does not discriminate.
I’ll try once more, with yet another analogy, and if you still claim I’m not addressing your “question”. Then I can’t help you any further.
Analogy deleted fo brevity.
Now if you think that is unjust or prejudicial treatment of the male applicants.
Then I can’t help you any further.

None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see.
Matthew Henry

You, sir, are living in denial.

Quite the reverse, BT.
It's you that claimed to abhor racism but continually and repeatedly criticise me when I point out to others their racially abusive comments. In addition, you noticably fail, and have failed to criticise the racially abusive posters yourself.
It's you who is denying the reality that you can't face up to.

You think that discriminating over something which is out of our control but wrapped up in sanctimonious semantics, called positive action, it somehow isn’t discrimination. And you wonder why people call you a racist.

I think you've flipped back to a previous discussion now.
Hello, we're here.If you want to resurrect that discussion then I suggest that you add the that thread rather than divert this discsussion back to there.
We're discussing why you repeatedly criricise me for pointing out the racist comemnts, rather than criticise the racist comments. As you said, you respond to the post not the poster but you never respond to racially abusive posts. You have never been so busy as when I've started criticising the racially abusive posters.
So are we back on track now?

For the record, I don’t think you are at all! (racist) (Is that defending you? Happy to oblige). But I can see why you are getting the heat here and I don’t think it’s just from racists.

Tell me, BT, why it is that you're criticising me so much and failing to criticise the racially abusive posters.
Why precisely am I getting the heat?

In the meantime ....
I'll repoduce the questions, that you are avoiding, for you below:
Will you oppose me in my attempt to eradicate racism, at least in GD forum on DIYnot?
Or will you support me?
Or will you agree with my objectives, but disagree with my methods?

 

[RogueHanger]

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you are all wasting your breath, or your finger muscles, by trying to talk sense to him.

Agreed.

Let's stop talking about this racism nonsense, and just get back to Subway and those bloody muslims.

What a dopey plonker.
This is what you wrote earlier today:

Yet you publicly support the worst racist on this forum and criticise me for trying to stop it.

But the worst racist on this forum is YOU.

 

[RogueHanger]

I think I'm finally there now JB. I dread wondering what's next; his next reply.
/....................../
I actually like Subway, /......./ Well, was my favourite. I'll boycott them from now on.

I'll hold fire for a bit waiting for your response to my recent comments.
I do recognise that you've perhaps answered some of my questions in your subsequent post.

But as a heads up, it'll be along the lines of:
So you think it's OK to allow racially abusive comments to litter the GD forum? and
Why will you boycott Subway now?

 

[LastMagicBean]

What a dopey plonker.
This is what you wrote earlier today:

Yet you publicly support the worst racist on this forum and criticise me for trying to stop it.

But the worst racist on this forum is YOU.

Yeah, as opposed to being the best you nobcake.

Think about it.

This gets funnier by the minute.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

RH....You need help mate. Seriously. If your posts on here are any indicator of your real life it must be a disaster. Reach out. There are people who can help you.

 

[Big Tone]

Last reply to RH on this JB, promise. (I hate that I am so nice and polite). Ignoring thread after this, not the poster, so I can't even be tempted or get further involved. (Never had to do that in my life before).

Tell me, BT, why it is that you're criticising me so much and failing to criticise the racially abusive posters.
Why precisely am I getting the heat?

Already said above. Re-read it at leisure and accept my explanation or reject it. I don't care if you understand my reason; it wouldn't be the first time.

In the meantime ....
I'll repoduce the questions, that you are avoiding, for you below:
Will you oppose me in my attempt to eradicate racism, at least in GD forum on DIYnot?

No. I will not and have never deliberately or knowingly opposed you on this, but I don't like a broken record either, even if it's a favorite song. No one does.

Or will you support me?

No. Not here sorry to say, but only because of how you have gone about it by tarring everyone with the same racist brush demanding that they somehow 'prove' themselves not to be and conform to your ideals of what someone is allowed to post. Forums don't work that way and it doesn't change who people are.

Or will you agree with my objectives, but disagree with my methods?

Yes. Style over substance. Your style stinks. I think you could make an enemy of The Pope! And, as said, I am now at a point where I dread your next reply. Hence