Sue Gray

[JohnD]

"I think she conspired with Labour politicians while carrying out an investigation, which means that her report cannot be believed" says motorbiking

"Why do you think that?

"I read an unsubstantiated story in a newspaper" says motorbiking.

"Do you have any evidence?"

"I've got a copy of the newspaper" says motorbiking.

"Anything else?"

"She issued a press release saying something, not quite sure what it said" says motorbiking

"Show me"

"Nope" says motorbiking.

 

[motorbiking]

"I think she conspired with Labour politicians while carrying out an investigation, which means that her report cannot be believed" says motorbiking

Never said that. your pants are on fire

Integral Sue, is rapidly become Naughty Sue, it seems. It's emerging that she in fact was engaged in a little chit chat with Labour when she was conducting an independent inquiry.

and then I posted my source - in the very thread post.

Is not at all the same.

and here is the suppoting evidence that conversations were being had in the background during that time. A confession, rapidly followed up by a press release.

and then lets add the rules that should have been followed:

Acland-Hood reminded other officials about their duty to impartiality, concluding with a firm warning that ‘if anybody receives contact from the Leader of the Opposition or a member of the Shadow Cabinet you should tell your permanent secretary right away.’ She reportedly went through the civil service’s code on impartiality line by line, telling colleagues:

You have to act in a way that deserves and retains the confidence of ministers while at the same time ensuring that you will be able to establish the same relationship with those who you may be required to serve in some future government. All I will say is I think that there is a real challenge to acting in a way that deserves and retains the confidence of ministers for someone so senior to go so quickly to a position in this way. I don’t really understand how this can possibly have happened without there being contact in advance which you shouldn’t be having without reporting it.

Did Sue Gray do this?

You have claimed repeatedly thats its untrue, without any evidence to back it up.

 

[JonathanM]

I've watched the video and previously read the newspaper report. I'm interested in this story and am not trying to be obtuse. But they're not making it very clear what Harriett Harman did wrong. They say in the video that she and Sue Gray spoke together on the phone. Is that wrong. What is the proper way for the chair of a parliamentary committee to go about this sort of fact finding. Are there rules. Should other people have been involved, either physically present or listening in. Are people saying Sue Gray should have hidden some of the information she had discovered from the committee.

 

[motorbiking]

It's not Harman who potentially broke the rules. Though she should probably know better than have chit chats with senior civil servants off the record.

Senior civil servants are not supposed to have chit chats, with senior members of the opposition without it being on-record. Being independent and conducting yourself independently aren't the same. It's possible for me to do my job independently of my own feelings. I cannot present myself as independent on certain subjects. @JohnD accuses me of saying she "conspired with Labour politicians while carrying out an investigation". I didn't say that, but many are forming that opinion, probably to a lessor extent.

Judges manage to avoid socialising with involved lawyers, for fear of conspiracy claims. If they cannot then they must follow the recusal rules.

 

[JonathanM]

We really need much better reporting. I don't think anyone is any the wiser, after these news items, about what the proper procedure is for contact between civil servants and the Chair of a parliamentary committee. If the journalist had told us, for example, that the normal procedure would have been for the Chair to contact official X in the civil service in writing to get permission to speak to Sue Gray and that somebody else needed to be present to take notes, then that would have been a useful report. Maybe there are different rules depending on whether the Chair is a senior member of the opposition. But he didn't explain any of this. Either he doesn't know or was trying to sensationalise. It might well be that what they did was the completely normal way that these things are done. The point is we haven't been given that information so we don't know.

EDIT: Anyway, isn't she just a backbencher these days? I don't think MPs with a portfolio are on these committees.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Floundering and back tracking

 

[JohnD]

Where is this alleged "press release" that motorbiking bragged about?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Still not seen it and can't find it.

Almost as though it's a made up fact

 

[JohnD]

"Fact"

 

[JohnD]

... she "conspired with Labour politicians while carrying out an investigation". ...

Which of those two things do you deny saying?

 

[motorbiking]

If I'd said it, you'd have quoted my original text.

 

[JohnD]

...It's emerging that she in fact was engaged in a little chit chat with Labour when she was conducting an independent inquiry. I wonder what the lefties here might think of a judge who socialised with an involved lawyer during a trial?...

 

[motorbiking]

So you accept you were lying then.

1. didn't allege a conspiracy
2. never said her report cannot be believed.

Or is it ok for you to paraphrase, but nobody else?

Did say it was emerging that there were chit chats which were inappropriate, do think she is likely to have broken the code and do agree with the views of Acland-Hood. Of course it would be very easy to clear the whole thing up, by cooperating or going on record.

Starmer and Gray, seem happy to allow the public to draw adverse inference from their refusal to go on record. It doesn't pass the sniff test does it.

 

[Odds]

At this point i wonder what conclusions people would infer if de Piffle was in this position?

 

[noseall]

1. didn't allege a conspiracy
2. never said her report cannot be believed.

The back-peddling has started.