Switched fused socket

[ericmark]

There is a difference between what the BSI/IET regulations allow and what is safe some common sense needs to be used.

The regulation says that any buried cable in wall or ceiling less than 50mm from surface (which means most cables since running cables through cavities no longer allowed) must be either special cables complying with BS 5467, BS 6346. BS 6724, BS 7846, BS EN 60702-1 or BS 8436 or be RCD protected with a 30ma non delayed RCD.

So in theory the cable to the outside socket needs to be one of the specials or the RCD fitted at origin i.e. using a RCD FCU. The idea is should some one drill or nail into the wall and hit cable they will not be electrocuted although they would likely get a shock.

These rules came in 2008 but not retrospective.

 

[JohnW2]

There is a difference between what the BSI/IET regulations allow and what is safe some common sense needs to be used. ... The regulation says that any buried cable in wall or ceiling less than 50mm from surface ... must be either special cables ... or be RCD protected. ... So in theory the cable to the outside socket needs to be one of the specials or the RCD fitted at origin i.e. using a RCD FCU.

Indeed. In fact, as I just wrote, if one takes the regs literally, then even adding an RCD FCU (with normal cable) is not compliant, because it leaves a few inches of new cable (the feed to the FCU) which are not RCD protected. However, as I implied (and, obviously, only 'IMO'), this is where common sense should prevail!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Diynotnewb]

I was looking for an easy way to do this but I also do not want to comprise safety.

Reading about this one previously on amazon, this is where i got idea of just drilling through the wall and plugging it in.

BG by Masterplug Outdoor Power Kit with 2g IP66 Switched Socket/ 3m Cable/ RCD plug

But can this be done with that type because of it having 'special wire with the rcd plug'

To be honest having plugs doesn't bother me too much because the plug is behind my tv stand

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Reading about this one previously on amazon, this is where i got idea of just drilling through the wall and plugging it in.
BG by Masterplug Outdoor Power Kit with 2g IP66 Switched Socket/ 3m Cable/ RCD plug
But can this be done with that type because of it having 'special wire with the rcd plug'

As the flex has a RCD protected plug, there is no issue, other than not particular the way most electricians would do this. But it's a simple and effective installation.

 

[Diynotnewb]

Thank you very much to all that posted replies

You have been very helpful.

I will wait and have a good think about what to do and most likely get some more quotes from electricians

Thank you

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The one issue I would have with this type of unit, well not the unit really but that it is designed to be installed as a DIY product, which again not a real concern, but bearing all this in mind and the nature of the product.
My concern would be:
If you don't have the right test equipment to confirm the RCD is tripping within the permitted time, would you feel safe to use it?
As I cannot remember ever coming across a certificate to confirm this, with the manufactures literature.
And a RCD testers is not a piece of kit your average DIYer has in the tool bag.

 

[JohnW2]

My concern would be: If you don't have the right test equipment to confirm the RCD is tripping within the permitted time, would you feel safe to use it?

A valid concern, but one which would apply equally to all 'plug-in' RCD adaptors, plugs etc. - do you have similar concerns about all them? Indeed, much the same really applies to all RCDs and RCBOs installed in domestic installations, since the great majority of such installations go many years between inspections. The electrician who installs them will hopefully have verified correct RCD operation at the time of installation, but that means little in terms of the situation a number of years down the road.

In your experience, how common is the potential problem? In other words, how often do you find an RCD which, although it trips (e.g. in response to the test button) has a trip time which is significantly beyond the acceptable limit?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

If you really want to comply then get a short length of Ali-tube (BS 8436) cable but personally I would not worry for such a short run.

 

[rjm2k]

OP just one more thing, if you get a sparky in, for the small cost I would get a brand new socket rather than re-use the used one you have. If the circuit is already protected by an RCD at the Consumer Unit, the sparky may advise against adding the extra RCD anyway since it's pointless apart from an extra redundancy point of view I guess or perhaps adding a latching RCD instead so the power can't come back on whilst you are poking around a circular saw wondering why it went off in the first place

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

A valid concern, but one which would apply equally to all 'plug-in' RCD adaptors, plugs etc

Which would all concern me, the nature of these products is to offer RCD protection and the effectiveness of that protection should be verified, I test mine regularly, not just for mechanical function but also functional purpose.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The electrician who installs them will hopefully have verified correct RCD operation at the time of installation, but that means little in terms of the situation a number of years down the road.

Which unless there is schedule of maintenance in place it would be wise that installers made their clients aware of this

In your experience, how common is the potential problem? In other words, how often do you find an RCD which, although it trips (e.g. in response to the test button) has a trip time which is significantly beyond the acceptable limit?

I find more often then not that the RCD fails completely rather than the mechanics of the test button, but this not a regular fault I come across but coincidentally I am replacing one this week because of this and only the second this year.
I must say on EICR reports and faults, I have yet to come across a functional RCD that was outside the permitted trip times, but recently had a brand new RCBO (BG) that did fail on this.

But this should not dilute the importance of these tests

 

[JohnW2]

A valid concern, but one which would apply equally to all 'plug-in' RCD adaptors, plugs etc

Which would all concern me, the nature of these products is to offer RCD protection and the effectiveness of that protection should be verified, I test mine regularly, not just for mechanical function but also functional purpose.

No-one can argue with that - but, to put things into perspective for the OP, I thought it was reasonable to let him know that the concern you were voicing was no different with the product he was proposing to use than it would be in relation any of the countless number of plug-in RCD adapters etc. that have been (and continue to be) sold and used.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

but, to put things into perspective for the OP, I thought it was reasonable to let him know that the concern you were voicing was no different with the product he was proposing to use than it would be in relation any of the countless number of plug-in RCD adapters etc. that have been (and continue to be) sold and used.

Reasonable and no different.

 

[JohnW2]

The electrician who installs them will hopefully have verified correct RCD operation at the time of installation, but that means little in terms of the situation a number of years down the road.

Which unless there is schedule of maintenance in place it would be wise that installers made their clients aware of this

That sounds all very reasonable, but exactly what would you advise the clients? It's questionable as to whether much would be gained by advising them to get an electrician to test their RCDs/RCBOs every 5 or 10 years, since that could leave them 'at risk' (living with an out-of-spec device) for many years - but, on the other hand, I don't think one could reasonably advise them to get the electrician in (to a standard domestic premises) every year, or every 6 months, could one?

I must say on EICR reports and faults, I have yet to come across a functional RCD that was outside the permitted trip times ...

That's what I suspected, particularly given that they are normally very well within the permitted trip times ...

...But this should not dilute the importance of these tests

'Dilute the importance' is a pretty emotive phrase, but I don't think one can ignore the level of a risk when deciding about routine checks to look for it. The argument that "just one life saved justifies any cost" (in the broadest sense of 'cost') is a concept seen only in Utopia. It's the classic dilemma of health screening. If one screened everyone in their teens, 20s and 30s for a range of diseases which are extremely rare (but not totally unknown) in that age group, once in a blue moon one would pick up, early, an incredibly rare occurrence of one of those diseases in a 'youngster', and thereby might 'save a life', or at least improve or prolong a life. However, such exercises are just not 'cost-effective' enough (again, 'cost' in the widest sense) to actually be implemented.

Kind Regards, John