Taking Back Control

[Mottie]

yes: the UK doesnt want nurses, carers, fruit pickers, chamber maids, waitresses, warehouse workers, delivery drivers.....Mottie hates the UK beign 'overun' by these essential workers, so once theyve put their lives on the line through this pandemic, Mottie says to em: pizz off home

Nurses, carers, fruit pickers, chamber maids, waitresses, warehouse workers and delivery drivers don’t come over here on rubber dinghies do they?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Presumably the same way as the get the message that we are a soft touch. They need to get a different message.

Nurses, carers, fruit pickers, chamber maids, waitresses, warehouse workers and delivery drivers don’t come over here on rubber dinghies do they?

Well how do they get the message?
I presume you are suggesting that the grapevine serves the purpose of communicating messages, assuming that is how refugees 'got the message that the UK is a soft touch'.
The only way I can see the grapevine generating and communicating such messages is to actually turn boats around mid-channel, which, as we know, is against international law.
So are you suggesting the UK acts illegally to send a message via the grapevine?

 

[Bodd]

I did read your post, the whole post and I quoted you in the response that I gave.
You then quoted yourself, but a completely different post, accusing me of not reading your post. It is you that is confused.
I have highlighted in red the bit that I particularly responded to.

Please explain how they will "get the message that they will be turned back".

You need to read the one prior to R&C. I also quoted it for the hard of reading...

What are we meant to do if we pick up Migrants in the Channel.

We have no choice but to bring them in then they claim asylum.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

You need to read the one prior to R&C. I also quoted it for the hard of reading...

Can you and/or Mottie explain how 'they will get the message'?
Then we can move on, instead of you suggesting the 'unachievable'.

 

[Bodd]

Can you and/or Mottie explain how 'they will get the message'?
Then we can move on, instead of you suggesting the 'unachievable'.

Once we leave the EU and the Dublin agreement we can negotiate a new agreement with France that we can enter French ports to return safely.

Then maybe the EU need to think about Reforming the Dublin agreement

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Once we leave the EU and the Dublin agreement we can negotiate a new agreement with France that we can enter French ports to return safely.

Why can't we do that now? Why or how will UK being out of the EU make any difference? Will we have some amazing negotiating power? What do UK have now that France wants, that could be used in negotiations of the bilateral agreement*?

Then maybe the EU need to think about Reforming the Dublin agreement

Why can't they do it now, or why would the EU consider reforming the Dublin agreement, after Brexit?

I think you're dreaming. The UK will have less influence on France, and/or the EU, after Brexit, not more.
After Brexit France can say, to UK, now take your fair share of refugees, because we'll cease the bilateral agreement* that we currently have with you.

In the meantime, how will the refugees 'get the message'?

"67.On returns, the Immigration Law Practitioners’ Association (ILPA) pointed out that losing access to Eurodac after Brexit would make it difficult to identify whether someone had already made an asylum application in another country before reaching the UK . Even if the UK discovered that an application had been made in an EU Member State, ILPA were not clear how the UK would negotiate the removal of the asylum seeker to that country in the absence of the Dublin System.63
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/428/42806.htm​

*Note that the current agreement is a bilateral agreement between France and UK, nothing to do with EU.

 

[mitch66]

In the meantime, how will the refugees 'get the message'?

Refugees? Didn't realise France was that dangerous a place

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Then maybe the EU need to think about Reforming the Dublin agreement

BTW, The Dublin Agreement is an EU wide agreement/ UK will automatically be out out of that agreement post Brexit.
So any reform will not affect UK.
But since Hungary opted out of the agreement, it's been more or less dead anyway.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Refugees? Didn't realise France was that dangerous a place

B D/Himmy is a liberal. They are blind to the hard realities of any situation.

 

[mitch66]

B D/Himmy is a liberal. They are blind to the hard realities of any situation.

Yet they parp on constantly about truth.

 

[JohnD]

truth.

A concept alien to Johnson and Cummings.

 

[Bodd]

BTW, The Dublin Agreement is an EU wide agreement/ UK will automatically be out out of that agreement post Brexit.
So any reform will not affect UK.

Sounds something very similar to what I said........ Must be my imagination.....

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Once we leave the EU and the Dublin agreement we can negotiate a new agreement with France that we can enter French ports to return safely.

Then maybe the EU need to think about Reforming the Dublin agreement

Sounds something very similar to what I said........ Must be my imagination.....

UK already have an agreement with France, that is additional and outside of the Dublin Agreement, Le Touquet Accord.. Why would France consider renegotiating that Agreement in UK's favour? That's a rhetorical question because the answer is obvious, they won't, why would they? I suppose some additional funds, over and above that currently paid by UK to France might encourage them. They already pay about £50million. But I doubt if it will make a dent in the current situation.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...445m-for-calais-security-in-anglo-french-deal

Why would the EU consider reforming the Dublin Agreement in UK's favour after Brexit? UK will no longer have any influence in EU agreements.

What you are suggesting makes no sense at all. Those are the blind realities of the situation, not the superlatively described 'world-beating systems' of the UK that are hardly fit for purpose.
UK is a small fish in a very large pond. It can only implement its policies by negotiation with other (usually larger fish). It cannot implement policies without cooperation of all the other fish. It can try, but it will find itself on the same trajectory as USA's current isolationist and non-cooperative, on-the-hoof withdrawal from global initiatives.

 

[Bodd]

UK already have an agreement with France, that is additional and outside of the Dublin Agreement, Le Touquet Accord..

OK I didn't know that....

But negotiation is about scratching each others back. I'm sure there will be some common ground (hopefully in Calais)

 

[Notch7]

They are blind to the hard realities of any situation.

but this is explaining the hard realities to a brexiteer who doesnt know the truth:

BTW, The Dublin Agreement is an EU wide agreement/ UK will automatically be out out of that agreement post Brexit.
So any reform will not affect UK.
But since Hungary opted out of the agreement, it's been more or less dead anyway.