The great thing about standards...

[SUNRAY]

Daughter phoned last night around 8pm...

2G switch 4 off 3C&E (2 old colours, 2 harmonised), 1 off T&E and 2off chockbloc's. My grandson (19) said it would be easy to change and brought one home from Screwfix where he works...

It took a little bit of head scratching, both switches labelled as L1, L2, L3. He says one switch had 2 wires in L1,L2 t'other had 2 wires in L3. Now it's tripping the RCBO's.

So the great thing about standards: old switch L3 = COM (no make that I could find), new switch L1 = COM. One gang wired as the end of conventional 2W with Neutral coming along the strappers feeding 2 wall lights, the other gang presumably wired as conversion method with a spare neutral from the 3 plate system.

 

[ericmark]

Oh that is unusual, I have seen Com, L1, L2 and L1, L2, L3 which for DIY causes confusion but using them in what seems wrong order takes the biscuit.

However the amount of Yellow plugs marked L, N, E, when most 110 volt supplies are L1, L2, E also seems wrong, and of course today we are told how impotent it is to note any reference to Load on RCD's and MCB's.

 

[securespark]

It would be helpful to know which of the three terminals on a 2W is supposed to be common, but unless you have a continuity tester, it's not immediately obvious.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

would also be nice if manufacturers could agree which terminal is the one for one way on a two way switch and if they could all agree to label them the same................

 

[SUNRAY]

It would be helpful to know which of the three terminals on a 2W is supposed to be common, but unless you have a continuity tester, it's not immediately obvious.

I just used a sonic LED screwdriver.

 

[securespark]

Oh, OK. That must be a live test, then?

Sorry, I was thinking a dead test.

 

[SUNRAY]

Oh that is unusual, I have seen Com, L1, L2 and L1, L2, L3 which for DIY causes confusion but using them in what seems wrong order takes the biscuit.

Yep but once I discovered the sequence, the original description of how many wires & where became fairly obvious in the before and after:

The tripping being caused by mixing up the black neutrals as these are on 2 lighting circuits but that may have been later attempts at getting it working. Otherwise I think it may have been correctly wired according to the numbers.

Being silly and thinking about this, it's a shame manufacturers didn't adopt COM becoming L3, I feel it may have been less confusing for some.

 

[SUNRAY]

Oh, OK. That must be a live test, then?

Sorry, I was thinking a dead test.

I did live testing but verified the old switches operation dead testing with the screwdriver.

 

[ericmark]

Oh the line, live, hot, low, extra low, neutral, phase question. I have been given, by my wife a freebie from who she buys all her tat from pen tester.

What we have to remember is English in some old form is used by USA which does not conform to international standard origination rules, so we have USA low voltage and ISO low voltage which do not match, and Chinese manufacturers who try to conform with two English languages which do not conform with each other. We have real English and USA English and Canadian English which is between the two.

The definition of Live has not helped, for years I thought the L on equipment stud for live, seems I was in error and it stands for line. At least when compared with neutral.

The same applies with Load, I thought AC stud for alternating current so load and supply were not important, seems I was wrong, so what does L stand for, Line, Load, or Live? Seems I need to go back to school and learn English. Well may as well learn Welsh instead.

 

[plugwash]

What we have to remember is English in some old form is used by USA which does not conform to international standard origination rules, so we have USA low voltage and ISO low voltage which do not match, and Chinese manufacturers who try to conform with two English languages which do not conform with each other. We have real English and USA English and Canadian English which is between the two.

We have far more than that. On top of regional variations, each field has it's own jargon. There are standards organisations of course but they only get to define what terms mean within the context of their standards, they don't get to define the english language in general.

I'm not convinced that usage in north america is any more consistent than here. Certainly there is a Canadian lineman on youtube who uses the terms "high voltage" and "low voltage" in the way you would expect a lineman to use them.

 

[FrodoOne]

Oh the line, live, hot, low, extra low, neutral, phase question. I have been given, by my wife a freebie from who she buys all her tat from pen tester.

What we have to remember is English in some old form is used by USA which does not conform to international standard origination rules, so we have USA low voltage and ISO low voltage which do not match,

I believe that the "Low Voltage" definition to which you refer is an IEC Definition,
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_voltage )

The definition of Live has not helped, for years I thought the L on equipment stud for live, seems I was in error and it stands for line.

Yes, it does.

At least in the UK (and in Australia/NZ) the term "Hot" is not used for the "Line" conductor.
(There would be something seriously wrong if any conductor in an electric supply system actually was "hot".)


In Australia and New Zealand, the term used for the "Line" wire is usually "Active".
(However, the term "Phase" is sometimes used in New Zealand - usually "bracketed" with "Active".)
(See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dual_3_Pin_Power_Outlet_-_Construction.jpg
where the letters "A", "N" and "E" are embossed on the plastic adjacent to the terminals.)

Light Switches in Australia/NZ have fairly standard designations of "C" (Common), 1 (L1) and 2 (L2) - with "L" standing the 'loop terminal" connection, which is NOT a part of the switching mechanism but is provided by the manufacturer as an insulated "connection point" for other items, such as a "Neutral" connection.
This tends to obviate any need to provide auxiliary connection devices - "terminal strips" etc.
(See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Typical_Australian_Rocker_Switch.jpg )

 

[ebee]

Well, in our country, it occurs to me that we often have three meanings to terms depending upon who uses them and how they use them.
Commonly, a normal everyday use, also a use depending upon the discipline being used in by trades etc the finally the legal or semi-legal use.
So, depending upon the reason we are using our term in sets the pace for what we actually mean in that context.
And to top it all, other countries might have different usage of terms or different terms altogether.
Good innit?

 

[ericmark]

The lighting industry seems to be the biggest problem, 12 volt lamps labelled as low voltage, large writing stating 40 watt and when one reads the small print it is a lot lower 40 watt is the equivalent light output to a tungsten bulb, even when the LED is designed to replace a fluorescent tube.

And at least they added 'electronic' with ballasts, but there seems to be a culture of calling things after what they replaced, so the wire wound transformer has been replaced with a switch mode power supply with no warning that the output now in kHz not the 50 Hz expected.

And Dimmable for a bulb, what does it mean? I have a load of dimmable lights, in most cases I set them with my phone and they do not connect to any dimming switch, the one dimming switch I have, also connects wireless to the bulb, this

seems to be the official icon, but dimmable with what? There are also a load more and I have not a clue what they all really mean. And the icon does not seem to show leading and lagging.

Things like double pole and intermediate switches will cause problems which can't really be avoided, but now we are getting four terminals where one is simply to park wires. Handy yes, but also adding to confusion.

At one time I could walk to a motor control and work out what it was star/delta, resistive, auto transformer and work out how to set it up, today there is only one option, read the manual which comes with it, as the switch mode controls have become so complex, and every one seems to be different.

 

[ebee]

Yes Eric I think it depends upon the context with which we use terms and expressions.
For Electrics and the ordinary bloke in the street a high voltage starts at somewhere around mains voltage and a low voltage around common usage batteries that we commonly buy in shops.
When a bloke asked me about where he could buy "a doorbell that is not electric" I mentioned pneumatic and clockwork doorbells but he was actually meaning battery operated. LOL.
As for electrical terms we consider some voltages exceeding our mains voltage to still be classed as low voltage (and further reduce that low voltage as being reduced low or extra low sometimes too) and high voltage to be transmission or even distribution voltages.
Bulbs grow in gardens and lamps get placed in lampholders and we would never place a bulb in a lampholder because it would get cooked when energised.
But we do acknowledge that different folks under different circumstances have different terminology for the same thing.
A car mechanic might well call a capacitor a condenser whilst a heating engineer and plumber calls other things condensers.
Campbells Soups used to make a condensed soup whereas would not condensed soup surely be water?

Was it not Alice (thru the looking glass) who decided that when she used a term that that particular term meant exactly what she intended it to mean and nothing more nothing less?

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Was it not Alice

Actually Humpty Dumpty...