The Johnson deal....its not quite what it seems

[festive]

no mention of any political party in my post that you are whining about.

Yawn.

 

[fillyboy]

no mention of any political party in my post

Keep it real John. I believe Theresa May was sufficiently affiliated to the Tory party to qualify that as a reference, and, if not the Tory party, who eactly are 'Smoggs bunch', the Green Party?

So you were happy with Theresa's deal

You must have been really cross with Smogg's bunch though

 

[EFLImpudence]

Festive, your posts are rendered pointless by the uses of 'could of' and 'would of' etc.

 

[SirGalahad]

Festive, your posts are rendered pointless by the uses of 'could of' and 'would of' etc.

Festive is pointless.

 

[ellal]

I honestly don't know. I'm almost totally immune to propaganda, spin & bullshit, but I honestly believe that the level of lies we are hearing from our politicians which is propagated by our meedya is at the highest level it has ever been outside of a war.

I'd love to see a genuine protest movement in the UK, like 'Mouvement des gilets jaunes' or our very own 'arab spring', but they know just how far they can push us before we bite back.

I voted for change, I hoped that change would be for the better but it won't be will it.

I understand why many people wanted change, but I'm assuming that that change wasn't meant to be for the worse?

There is no way that Brexit ever could improve the lives of those suffering...

Because their problems are caused by UK governments, not the EU - so the 'protest vote' backfired!

Specifically . . . Freedom of movement. Nothing has done more overall damage to the UK's social structure since Maggie sold off our utilities.

You say you are 'almost totally immune to propaganda, spin & bullshit', and yet you blame freedom of movement...

Freedom of movement is a boon, because it works both ways.
I can't recall the 'auf wiedersehn' generation complaining when they took advantage of that right to survive a tory inflicted recession, can you?

And it is not the root of the problem of what you say is the 'overall damage to the UK's social structure'.

Which brings me onto...

I bridge the gap between the rich & poor, I see everyday the massive effect this policy has had on the haves & the have nots. Whilst it is nice to have a property portfolio earning an average of 9%pa, it is not nice to sit, chat, & actually hear my tenants fears.

There's a character in my local pub, worked 40+yrs in the stinking heat of an iron foundry, raised 4 children who all went on to Uni' & good jobs. At what point after contracting cancer did he become a burden on our welfare state? He collapsed in his kitchen a few weeks ago & it took 4 ****ing hrs for an ambulance to arrive.

When I finally realised that I had enough £money to leave the rat race & become my own boss in the late 80's, I threw the financial advisor out of my house & became a property developer/investor/slumlord. Something that 'me Dad' was very suspiscious of but something that satisfied me a lot more than working for the man. I have basically been playing Monopoly in the real world & just like the game there can only be one winner.

Whilst you are obviously doing ok, with respect you and the many others like you are a big part of the problem...

Not that I blame you for enriching yourself, as it's human nature after all...
(I have family and friends who have done the same)

But I would say that the policy that has done more harm to the UK than almost anything was thatcher's right to buy policy...

It has resulted in a large percentage of property ending up in a minority of hands and with little social housing left.
(It's described as 'social housing' for a reason!)

And that leaves millions upon millions paying exhorbitant rents with no hope of ever getting out of their relative poverty!

Add to that the breakdown of public services and persecution through the welfare system, and millions of people feel totally helpless in this country!

So you don't 'bridge the gap between the rich & poor', you help maintain the gap.
Those you hear blaming immigration for being in their unenviable position of 'have nots' I'm afraid have been had.

The only ones with a reasonable future are the offspring of the 'haves', and hence the social divide, or 'gap' - a gap that is ever widening!

The real reason behind the brexit agitators propaganda is that they don't like the 'european social model' because it is fairer than the 'american version' they want mirrored in the UK...

Because they make vast sums of money out of exploiting that gap!

 

[noseall]

.

 

[noseall]

it took 4 ****ing hrs for an ambulance to arrive.

​

Tory austerity for ya. Likely to get worse after Brexit. Expect 4.5 hours in the future.​

 

[tony1851]

One of the most important political decisions this country will take since WW2. And how many MPs have actually read through the whole Treaty and actually understand it? One way or another, the country is being bounced into a Treaty without really knowing the details.

 

[Notch7]

One of the most important political decisions this country will take since WW2. And how many MPs have actually read through the whole Treaty and actually understand it? One way or another, the country is being bounced into a Treaty without really knowing the details.

Johnson wants the momentum of 'we need to get it done' to carry it across the line before the details are considered.

This EU treaty requires the UK to maintain a level playing field, so any divergence they dont like will make a FTA not possible
and result in a no deal in 2020.

The government have refused to publish their economic assessment before the vote.

 

[tony1851]

Johnson wants the momentum of 'we need to get it done' to carry it across the line before the details are considered.

This EU treaty requires the UK to maintain a level playing field, so any divergence they dont like will make a FTA not possible
and result in a no deal in 2020.

The government have refused to publish their economic assessment before the vote.

If you say it will result in no-deal in 2020, you are assuming that trade talks will have broken down?
This will never happen. Forty-odd years of EU membership has enabled its tentacles to reach insidiously into every corner of British life, politics and institutions - look at the recent ruling by the SC for an example. Officials and politicians no longer have the backbone to fight Britain's corner - they have been neutered.
Too many people in authority here are emotionally beholden to the EU, making true Leaving almost impossible.
Britain's body politic has been heavily infested by the EU virus, probably beyond cure.

 

[Notch7]

If you say it will result in no-deal in 2020, you are assuming that trade talks will have broken down?

I cant see how trade talks will get anywhere in a year, the UK would have to concede at every level to get an EU FTA by 2020.
(Judging by the Brexit process so far).
That even assuming Johnson doesnt just run the clock down.

I appreciate you are vehemently anti EU, but bear in mind if we dont share their regulations and be held by their treaties, the UK will just have to share US regulations and get royally shafted by the US in trade deals. Same with WTO -its full of sharks.

Brexit is a choice between the EU and some Brexit destination.

I am a Eurosceptic, I share your negative feelings about the EU, in some respects, I certainly dont like their 'treaty creep', but pragmatically I see the EU as being better than the alternative.

 

[noseall]

making true Leaving almost impossible.
Britain's body politic has been heavily infested by the EU virus, probably beyond cure.

Legal and regulatory alignment with the EU is hardly a burden. What holds you back so, Tony?

 

[SirGalahad]

If you say it will result in no-deal in 2020, you are assuming that trade talks will have broken down?
This will never happen. Forty-odd years of EU membership has enabled its tentacles to reach insidiously into every corner of British life, politics and institutions - look at the recent ruling by the SC for an example. Officials and politicians no longer have the backbone to fight Britain's corner - they have been neutered.
Too many people in authority here are emotionally beholden to the EU, making true Leaving almost impossible.
Britain's body politic has been heavily infested by the EU virus, probably beyond cure.

Which ruling?

You sound like a typical Brexiteers drunk on secondhand nostalgia.

Countries that can dictate terms to us now.

USA, China, Japan, 27 countries in the EU. You can add India to that list soon. But it gets worse once the 16 countries in the RCEP create the worlds largest trade bloc.

Our empire is gone but fools still think we have one.

 

[Brigade77]

Whilst you are obviously doing ok, with respect you and the many others like you are a big part of the problem...

Everything that I have I worked damned hard for, but there is a side to self earned wealth that those who haven't got it don't get to see. I was a workaholic who neglected his family & luckily recognised that I had to change when I realised that just about everyone who was important in my life was giving me a wide berth.

I've never been able to solve a problem without creating a few others, I really don't see how anyone has ever solved a problem fully. I hope that I have only ever taken down big problems & broken them up into a few smaller ones.

We could play ping pong all day about how my way is better than yours but let me tell you this about your social housing, should it be the states duty to clothe, feed & house the population?

No, & neither should it be mine.

On one of my sites once a bloke called me a lucky bastard. He'll never know just how close he came, but I've had professional help in controlling my temper.

It's damned hard work being this lucky.

 

[Vinty]

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