The Thistle (and the damage done).

As well as reducing crime by addicts seeking to fund a habit, it will reduce deaths and disease transmission, bring the addicts within reach of professional help, and will reduce the profits of criminal drugs gangs.

Win-win-win
 
They should put happy drugs in the water supply

The country would all be bombed out of there eads and happy :giggle:

like the Dutch
 
Who is allocated to pay for the drugs the addicts want to take? Is it tax payer funded? Are we literally making tax payers buy drugs to keep addicts addicted?

Mental.
 
The problem with alcohol/drug addiction is that it's an illness, an illness for which there is no cure, other than giving up completely, even then there is no such thing as a 'cured' alcoholic, any alcoholic who has been sober long term will tell you they are a 'recovering' alcoholic rather than a 'cured' alcoholic. Nobody knows why, there's some evidence of it being hereditary, certain enzymes in the brain blah blah blah, bottom line is nobody knows why some people become addicts but most don't.
Alcoholics Anon and NA are great, as are the countless treatment centres including the well known celebrity ones, but pushing someone into treatment of any sort more often than not fails, because deep down, the addict doesn't really want to be cured.
An addict will only really seek treatment when he/she reaches rock bottom and they are desperate to be 'better', everybody's 'rock bottom' will be different, for some it will losing their job, losing their partner, losing their job and partner, or simply losing everything and living on the streets, even that is not enough for some to consider it as rock bottom and so they die. If you feed the addict to help them avoid their own personal rock bottom, you take away the need for recovery.

Without meaning to sound facetious, the centres described in the OP sound to me a little like going to the doctor with severe diahorreah, and being referred to a meeting room where they give you words of encouragement and dish out laxatives. It might work, but, lets be honest, it's a long shot.

A bloke called Bill W was a chronic alcoholic back in 30's America. He was on a business trip and had been sober for some time but paced around the room becoming more and more desperate for a drink, he asked the landlady if she knew of a local drunk, the landlady said no but Bill W persisted and she eventually gave him the name of the local doctor, who was a chronic alcoholic. Bill W promptly went round to Dr Bob's house and demanded to speak to him, 'I just need to speak to another drunk'. they spoke about the need to drink, the need not to drink, the heartbreak they'd brought upon others, they spoke for six hours. They found by talking about it, the need to drink subsided, temporarily at least.

That was the birth of AA, they now have an estimated 100,000 groups in 150 countries, with more than two million members. Membership is free, they ask for a donation at meetings, but only what you can afford, and if you can't afford anything, well just help serve the coffee.

'It works if you work it' is a well known AA quote, it basically means there's is nothing magical about the information in the program, nothing that will cure you just by hearing it. But if you do the work, if you turn the words into practices, you can make progress, doing the steps, reading the Big Book, going to meetings, working with your sponsor.
My wife (ex at the time because of her alcoholism) spent some time in an expensive rehab centre, she met some famous tv celebs who kept in touch, but she was back on the drink shortly after leaving, we were tentatively seeing each other again after a year apart by which time she'd started attending AA meetings, but falling off the wagon was a regular occurrence, she'd cry for days afterwards having let us and herself down. At one point she was attending 3 meetings a day, the rough one's in Slough and Maidenhead, the Doctors and Dentists one in Beaconsfield, the 'stars on sunday' one in Chelsea and everything in between, addiction transcends the classes. Eventually something clicked and she just stopped drinking. After a couple of years sobriety we re-married and she carried on going to AA for many years, sponsoring many newcomers along the way and volunteering for the telephone help line at weekends, that caused a few arguments, somebody would phone at 2 in the morning threatening to kill themselves, I'd overhear it and say 'just tell them to ******g do it and let me get back to sleep'. The thing was, the natural progression was for her to sponsor and help newcomers, not only did it help others, it strengthened her own recovery.
I later learned that people would come from far and wide if they knew she was going to 'speak' at an AA meeting, and she had to turn away many people who wanted her to sponsor them or mentor them.
Through her I got to know quite a few addicts, sadly, many didn't make it and died far too early, some were doomed by a terrible upbringing in deprivation and a lack of love, a lack of understanding, others had everything and more, but chose a self destructive path nonetheless.

Anyway, in December we celebrated her 29th year of sobriety.

Thanks for listening.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
 
Who is allocated to pay for the drugs the addicts want to take? Is it tax payer funded? Are we literally making tax payers buy drugs to keep addicts addicted?

Mental.
We could use the money saved on police dragging their bodies off the pavement.
 
If it saves the NHS money then yes, buy all the after eights needed.

This is an attempt to reduce drug use. By getting them into a treatment program you might be able to get them off drugs.
The running costs amount to £7m over 3 years, which i assume will be privately funded, and have room for 8 people at a time out of an estimated 500 regular users in the city. Depending on their habit, some could be in the center up to ten times a day. How much will it really help out the NHS at that rate? It'll be interesting to see how their success rate compares with other centers worldwide. Maybe 1-in-10, in a hundred, would be persuaded to kick their habit but it doesn't mention on-site counselling...

Annemarie Ward is the chief executive of the charity Faces and Voices of Recovery UK, which helped draft the Scottish Conservatives' Right to Recovery Bill making its way through the Scottish Parliament. She questioned spending priorities and stated that the facility was a "misnomer of treatment". Ms Ward said: "It is a harm reduction intervention, not a treatment. Ms Ward added: "Does it stop people from dying? I don't think it does. I think it encourages people to continue to harm themselves. "I would like to see the money go into services that can help people get their lives back. "
 
"Some services similar in size to this in other countries are seeing up to 200 people a day but it's really difficult to predict," she said.
From the BBC Article they might see as much as 200 of that 500 user base daily.

Ward is an interesting interviewee as she is a sceptic of harm reduction as a concept and other treatments like Methadone. She's a proponent of AA style 12 step programs. They've got a very poor track record but seem to have worked for her.


But the BBC article doesn't go into massive depth about the facility. Here's more.
Within The Thistle there is a reception and waiting area, private chat rooms where users can talk to staff and tell them about the drugs they plan to take. There is a separate using space with eight individual booths (two are wheelchair accessible and have either left or right sidearms), a post injection recovery area with trained staff and an aftercare lounge area where service users can, if they want to, interact with healthcare support staff (with lived experience) and representatives from a variety of support organisations. There are two health rooms where users can access a range of treatments including having any wound(s) looked at or Blood Bourne Virus (BBV) testing undertaken.

So at least some of that cost is going on preventative care and early treatment, which are famously the most cost effective way of delivering care.
 
An article by Kojo Koram @ the Guardian today, gives a prologue to the foundation of The Thistle when...In 2020, in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, the former heroin user and drug intervention worker Peter Krykant realised that as support services shut their doors for lockdown, Glasgow’s drug-taking population would die in even greater numbers unless someone did something. Krykant also knew that, according to global evidence, the most effective way to lower the number of dangerous drug deaths was to give people somewhere they could use drugs in a safe environment. This is because much of the danger of drugs comes from sharing needles, injecting in dirty back alleys or repeatedly injecting into damaged veins. Safe consumption rooms mean that at least people are using drugs in a supervised and sanitary environment.

The first clinic was opened in Berne, Switzerland, in 1986 - “The goal was not to fight drugs anymore. It’s completely ridiculous to fight drugs,” said Jean-Félix Savary, secretary general of the Romand Group of Addiction Studies in Geneva. “We came to this conclusion and decided to change.”

Overall, the success rate is between 40-60%, depending on the drug and severity of addiction. Well, John Crace managed to overcome the monkey on his back, but nothing can be done about his addiction to the pain of supporting Spurs. Intervention was the thing back in the 90s, and i still think it can be helpful but for the homeless and bereft, a treatment clinic is their only lifeline.
 
We could use the money saved on police dragging their bodies off the pavement.
We've never seriously tried to rehabilitate them and been able to say 'OK we tried to rehabilitate them as a point of law, as a concerted effort as a country, as national policy' and I'd like to see us try that first.
 
We've never seriously tried to rehabilitate them and been able to say 'OK we tried to rehabilitate them as a point of law, as a concerted effort as a country, as national policy' and I'd like to see us try that first.
And what do you think that would look like in practice?
 
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