The Tory Billboard campagin.

[Big Tone]

The reason I think they are culpable is because they are the ones who make the laws, both large and small, which govern us. They are the reason why if that 14 year old yob you mention throws a stone at me I can’t give him a slap for fear of serving time at her Majesty’s pleasure myself.

They are the reason that a yob can throw stones at firemen and get sent to Spain for a break but if I go over a speed limit where it is safe to do so I get harsher treatment than a scumbag.

They are the reason we have 24 hour drinking and Sunday is now just like any other day. They are the reason this country is overpopulated. I know this all sounds petty or small but it’s countless factors like this which have an overall negative effect on society. It isn’t just one thing but the drip-drip of legislation into absolutely everything we do!

So I believe they are the reason why this country is in the mess it is and let's not forget who entered us into an illegal war, but who took a fall for that? Churchill must be turning in his grave! They make the laws which govern and restrict our behaviour and this over-regulation is reflected in our society. My generation, (I’m 51), have witnessed first hand the deterioration of my mother land and there is no doubt in my mind where I place the blame.

You say they have nothing to do with bringing up children but just a minute... They have the control to limit vulgarity on our television like it was when I was young. I personally know children, (and that is what they are), whose ambition is to get knocked-up and gain: A flat, a fridge, a television, £300 in a lump sum and a regular income, all of which the likes of you and me are paying for.

Who came up with that if it wasn’t the Government and what message does it send to children? Let’s create a society where children are having children and see what values are passed down from a mother of 16 or 18 when they are more interested in getting pi$$ed or the latest mobile phone than showing respect by buying a poppy once a year. 'Never mind lest we forget, where's my bloody fags?'

So yes, these MPs are just men and women but they are far from normal because they have the power of control over us. If you have ever worked in a no-blame culture, like I have, you will know it doesn’t work. Why? Because no-one is ever held accountable for their actions. I want the MPs held accountable just as I am in my job.

If Brown takes a fall I think the word I’m looking for is schadenfreude. I just wish it happened to Blair first because, in Browns defence, his timing into number 10 could not have been worse. I actually feel quite sorry for him but that doesn’t mitigate the complete and utter £uck up he’s made both as PM and Chancellor.

It’s this ‘do as we say not as we do’ ethos which really sticks in my craw. At least Profumo had the decency to resign when he was caught out, but just look at what they get away with today and yet still don’t resign or feel pressured into leaving politics!

I have to do my job well and I expect them to do theirs equally well and that’s all I’m asking. I have a job which suits my abilities. If they haven’t the ability to run a country then they shouldn’t have applied for the job.

I’ve forgotten what your question was now bud



I don’t know if you’re an avid reader Skitzee but I’ll like to offer this http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15104

Take care.

 

[lifesagasman]

[quote="skitzee2k";p="1594447

Well there is your problem. Mps are just people that we ask to represent us. They are not anything other than human...humans which we put in power I might add. The MPs have nothing to do with bringing up children, that would be the parents.

The second you start blaming someone else for the collapse in decent society rather than the indecent society which destroyed it, you are just passing the buck. Is a 14 y.o. yob motivated to drink on street corners because someone bought a duck island?? Or is it the s***te parents who accept this type of behaviour? Everyone's **** stinks, Tone.[/quote]

the first part is incorrect. I've never been able to choose an MP. The candidates are put forward by the party they represent. It is reasonable to expect that these candidates are decent, law-abiding, moral, principled and honest, as you would expect in other spheres of society.
If it transpires that they are otherwise, then the constituency party has failed to make a good judgement of their choice of candidate.
i am only able to declare that i want a particular party represented, which is very different from choosing an MP.
also they do have a lot of influence on bringing up children. they create laws, rules and policies by which we have to abide... if those laws allow for ineffective punishments, then there is little deterrent to 'bad' behaviour, from young or old.
we have become too squeamish about punishment, bleeding heart liberals and 'human rights' have seen to that

 

[skitzee2k]

the first part is incorrect. I've never been able to choose an MP.

Yes you have, You can choose anyone who wants to be one.

The candidates are put forward by the party they represent.

Apart from the people that stand as independants

It is reasonable to expect that these candidates are decent, law-abiding, moral, principled and honest, as you would expect in other spheres of society.

This is true, but until polygraph machines are used, you only have others judgements to go on.....they are still humans though and are not perfect

If it transpires that they are otherwise, then the constituency party has failed to make a good judgement of their choice of candidate.

...and as soon as we have mind reading parties this problem can be solved.

i am only able to declare that i want a particular party represented, which is very different from choosing an MP.

You vote for the person standing for the seat...most have party backing..but you are voting for the MP

also they do have a lot of influence on bringing up children. they create laws, rules and policies by which we have to abide... if those laws allow for ineffective punishments, then there is little deterrent to 'bad' behaviour, from young or old.

Compared to parents, family and society they have very very little influence. If parents brough up their kids right it wouldn't matter if the punishment for shoplifting was a 10p fine or hanging. I don't not steal because of the punishment, I don't do it because my parents taught me morals and it is morally wrong to steal, no matter what anyone says...i don't need a punishment to be know that

we have become too squeamish about punishment, bleeding heart liberals and 'human rights' have seen to that

We have become too light handed, but again this is "what we do when we have a problem"...if brought up properly people wouldn't ever be a problem.

 

[lifesagasman]

i don't choose an MP. i may vote for one as they represent a party, but i haven't chosen who that individual is. the constituency party chooses the candidate.

 

[skitzee2k]

Tone,
I completely agree. The reaction of the government to these problems is crap.
...but we are both saying that the 'clean up' after the 'mess' has all ready been made is crap.

Yes, it is, but they are not making the mess, THIS is where are anger should be. They may be inefficient but they aren't the cause.

Tone...if there WAS filth and crap on the TV in your day, would your parents have let you watch it? I don't think they would. So it wouldn't (and doesn't) matter what was on....if parents were good at their role.

 

[skitzee2k]

Tone,
I completely agree. The reaction of the government to these problems is crap.
...but we are both saying that the 'clean up' after the 'mess' has all ready been made is crap.

Yes, it is, but they are not making the mess, THIS is where OUR anger should be. They may be inefficient but they aren't the cause.

Tone...if there WAS filth and crap on the TV in your day, would your parents have let you watch it? I don't think they would. So it wouldn't (and doesn't) matter what was on....if parents were good at their role.

 

[lifesagasman]

i don't choose an MP. i may vote for a candidate as they represent a party, but i haven't chosen who that individual is. the constituency party chooses the candidate.

 

[skitzee2k]

i don't choose an MP. i may vote for one as they represent a party, but i haven't chosen who that individual is. the constituency party chooses the candidate.

That is like saying that i don't choose what i eat because there is a limited amount of foods available. There is as much choice as you allow there to be.

The fact that you vote for the individual because he is a whip of a party doesn't mean that you haven't voted for the individual.

 

[Big Tone]

Tone...if there WAS filth and crap on the TV in your day, would your parents have let you watch it? I don't think they would. So it wouldn't (and doesn't) matter what was on....if parents were good at their role.

Well without going into too much detail Skitzee, my upbringing wasn’t normal but you’re right, my mum would, and did, turn the TV over when so much as a tit was shown. (Very annoying at fourteen I can tell you! )

I’m still uncomfortable with your assertion though soz. The drink and drug culture has a lot to answer for, along with peer pressure and media all having a profound effect on today’s generation.

Add to this the level of expected education and related stress that it causes, it comes as no surprise that kids today are ‘breaking’ as they all aspire to be the best and own the best and anything less is failure. We simply didn’t have that expectation in my day, not on that level we didn’t.

So IMHO these pressures and people they mingle with play a far greater role than many parents. It’s hard to say really and not something which is easy to research.

I must say though, there’s a woman I work with who has four children but not a single TV in the house, (Unheard of today), and her children are the nicest most well balanced I know. This probably supports both our arguments, her mother has had a great influence but also there’s no ‘pollution’ entering the home.

That said, I’m not sure if she isn’t unwittingly preparing them to take a big fall later in life, like happened to me...

 

[lifesagasman]

i don't choose an MP. i may vote for one as they represent a party, but i haven't chosen who that individual is. the constituency party chooses the candidate.

That is like saying that i don't choose what i eat because there is a limited amount of foods available. There is as much choice as you allow there to be.

The fact that you vote for the individual because he is a whip of a party doesn't mean that you haven't voted for the individual.

as i said, i may vote for the individual but i haven't chosen which individual the party members have put forward as a candidate.
that is a simple fact. why argue it?

 

[skitzee2k]

i don't choose an MP. i may vote for one as they represent a party, but i haven't chosen who that individual is. the constituency party chooses the candidate.

That is like saying that i don't choose what i eat because there is a limited amount of foods available. There is as much choice as you allow there to be.

The fact that you vote for the individual because he is a whip of a party doesn't mean that you haven't voted for the individual.

as i said, i may vote for the individual but i haven't chosen which individual the party members have put forward as a candidate.
that is a simple fact. why argue it?

...and this would be a good point if you could only vote for people an established party puts forward. But anyone can stand for a seat.

 

[lifesagasman]

that is true, but i still have not chosen for them to do that. they have chosen to stand. i may choose to vote for them, which is different. please refer to my original disagreement to your post where you said we choose our MPs. we don't. we vote for candidates, as they represent the politics we agree with. if a different candidate was put forward we would presumably vote for them for the same reasons.

no more posts on this topic for me.

 

[Whitespirit66]

Has anyone else noticed that every time gordon brown finishes a sentance he seems to poke his tongue into the side of his mouth. Very annoying

Yes, its like a strange swallowing action. I think Mandelson's boyfriend showed him how to to it!

 

[skitzee2k]

that is true, but i still have not chosen for them to do that. they have chosen to stand. i may choose to vote for them, which is different. please refer to my original disagreement to your post where you said we choose our MPs. we don't. we vote for candidates, as they represent the politics we agree with. if a different candidate was put forward we would presumably vote for them for the same reasons.

no more posts on this topic for me.

...but that is done by choice. I CHOOSE to pick a MP2B who is conservative because I WANT a conservative MP....and if enough people CHOOSE that MP2B...he will get in power.