Thumbs up for EPDM roof sheet

[^woody^]

call me a staunch traditionalist, but a well laid three layer felt roof can last 15 years and for a moderate outlay.

plus, it is repairable.

so a bespoke piecemeal felt roof is the answer me thinks - woody?

Excluding trims etc, for the actual membrane and adhesive my cost per m2 was around £7. How much would a good 3 layer system be?

Then factor in the much less labour time to lay, that no torch or gas costs, and the other ancillaries for a felt system, and I suspect it wll be a cheaper cost still.

It can be repaired easily with a patch. And whereas felt will have many possible entry points on the lap seams, or punctures will be difficult to trace, with EPDM there are fewer joins, and all but the tiniest pinholes will be easy to see.

Now, I am expecting at least 15 years life, whereas with felt I would be expecting 15 years max.

Ok its not the answer for all sittuations, but for a typical domestic or small/medium commercial roof, then it does seem to be a better solution to felt

 

[Xenon]

Your knowledge of modern felt sytsems is very limited then.

Probably.

But do feel free to enlighten us all with your vastly superior knowledge

Oh dear, where would you like enlightenment?

The fact that all decent felt systems have a 20 year insurance backed guarantee, and liquid plastics 25years. That is on the basis that they are installed by qualified fixers though. Most, if not all commercial work is now design and build, that has to take into account whole life costs, as well as recycling.

Now, whilst taking into account you are a 1 man band, and you need a product for the domestic market, your claim that you think the product is better than 'traditional' felt is unfounded. It may give you higher return on installation/material cost, but at the end of the day, its a sheet of rubber thats glued to the deck.

Have you seen it after its been down for a while?

Brent Cross shopping centre made the mistake of installing it in the early 90's, ballasted with chippings, it still seperated. What about lap bonding around details, have you seen the effects of sun on these?

Lets assume by 'traditional' felts you mean the old 3 layer rag based systems....do they still sell them Does anybody still bother with 3 layers and chippings

Have you ever seen a lap seperate on a correctly installed HT system? I haven't, but i have seen the way rubber roofs fail.

Now whilst understanding that small operators need maximum profit for minimum outlay, banging the drum for a product that has limited applications for uneducated homeowners is wrong.

I have installed many 1000's of metres since 1986, mainly felt, but also some Liquid Plastic, mainly commercial, but a lot of domestic.

Do you know how many i've had problems with?...None. So you can probably understand where my preference lies, and my 'Vastly superior knowledge' comes from.

Google Marley,Icopal,Bauder, Esha, LPL, Langley and educate youself further.

Google EPDM, see how many training/licensed installer schemes they operate.

While your sarcastic attitude attempts to portray the fact your opinion is beyond question, trust me, it is.

 

[Thurston]

thanks for all the helpful info on the EPDM all in one sheets

we have a felted roof that needs replacing and are thinking of going this way mainly to avoid another leaking roof

can anyone point me in the direction of the most useful and cost effective suppliers of this product that you have found and used

at the moment I am looking at about £90 transport costs as I cant find a supplier close to me but there might be one under my nose I am not finding

any help would be appreciated

 

[JohnD]

you could do worse than say what town you are in.

 

[^woody^]

Oh dear, where would you like enlightenment?

This is not a PC/MAC, VHS/Betamax argument. What I am saying is that the ease of fitting, cost and longer term lifespan would seem to make EPDM a better option than felt.

I've seen all types of defects in all types off roofs of all ages, and felt laps do open, and upstands do crack, and bubbles do form, and surfaces degrade quicker than expected. And these can appear after a few months, years or later in its life.

EPDM may experience similar problems, but there does seem to be a lot more inherent flexibility. In fact I know of one roof where the EPDM is at least 14 years old, and the bond with the deck was lost about 9 years ago, and it is only joined at the edges - but its still watertight and the cover is still performing.

As a flat roofer, you may have an element of bias. I don't.

As I said, some situations may be better for certain systems when all factors are taken into account. But from previous experience of EPDM, and now having laid one first hand, I can see the advantages over felt - especially for the DIYer or professional with no experience, or specialist tools.

 

[^woody^]

can anyone point me in the direction of the most useful and cost effective suppliers of this product that you have found and used

www.permaroof.co.uk

Delivery will be £15 for all the gear for a typical roof, and next day

There are some other online suppliers if you google

 

[fastrac]

Hi, I have it on my roof as well. Looks good. How did you insulate it? Underneath the roof board? I`m having pros with condensation under the roof board that the EPDM is glued onto. Don`t know if insulation is to have an air gap or to be bonded staright onto the roof board?

 

[^woody^]

I formed a composite roof - deck on furrings, then full fill quilt insulation between the furrings and joists (no air gaps), then 50mm celotex on the underside of the joists.

So no chance of any condensation forming under the deck or within the roof construction

But normally you would do an [insulated] warm deck, or a [ventilated] cold deck

 

[kujina]

Excluding trims etc, for the actual membrane and adhesive my cost per m2 was around £7.

^woody^ where did you get it from for that price?

Its £17sqm on www.diy-flat-roof.com.

 

[toptec]

In the 6 months since Woody's post i bet the price has gone up!

 

[^woody^]

Excluding trims etc, for the actual membrane and adhesive my cost per m2 was around £7.

^woody^ where did you get it from for that price?

Its £17sqm on www.diy-flat-roof.com.

I got it from permaroof, as mentioned in the thread.

It has probably gone up in price since last year though.

I can't reply to your PM as you are not my friend

 

[Nige F]

Is it made by " The London Rubber co." I`m the result of one of their products failing Though, that was back in 1953.

 

[justlead1]

Hi My experience with this product only comes from approx half a dozen jobs where lead work has been necessary to form outlets transitions through parapets and at the end of tapered/abutment gutters etc. However i have been instructed rather than asked to design these situations. The methods used to joint the two materials seemed a bit mickey mouse, and have strong doubts as the longevity. In most trades long straight runs of any thing can be carried out by supervised labours, its only where changes of direction and abutments come in to play that the trade person is required. The trouble with all these new innovations is if they do not come up to the mark some one gets left holding the baby. And where decking, slate and tile need to be removed to relay the roof, it can greatly change the character of the building when matches of the removed materials can not be soured.

 

[vancleef]

I have just newly been on the epdm course which was done through Firestone who make tyres.

I have been doing flat roofs for many years with felt and this rubber style flat roof is far superior because there is no heat involved and does'nt need the expense of high insurances.The rubber sheet is glued down using water based and solvent based glues and corners are made up with neat patches which are provided and the rubber sheets can be joined together with uncured rubber strips which can not be taken apart later.

We can pick this direct from the manufacturer for around £10 the square metre and has a life expectancy of anything up to 50 years is what the manufacturer states but you only get any type of guaranty if the work has been carried out with someone who has done the course with firestone who is using there product.

 

[vasikhol]

ashphaltic and proos dont stock it but burtons do