tiles outside on patio

[bwatt]

I have just purchased some outside tiles for my patio area and they are porclean tiles,guy said slate ones need treated anyway he said the slate ones where not as strong and i did like the porclean ones anyway.
I got them at a good price end of line and the guy tried to sell me bags of stuff to use for sticking them to floor/concrete and at £25 a bag and said i would need approx 4 bags of these so you can understand why i did not get any,he said this has special stuff in it that makes the tiles stick better,i said my father was a builder and he was going to use cement,he tried to tell me this is no good for this tiles and i said to my father about this and he said it was ok to use cement as long as it was real wet etcWho is right and wrong i cant see why i should pay £25 a bag when a bag of cement is much much less and would maybe do same job anyone in this line of work tell me different.

 

[nellyb]

Bog standard cement will definitely not do the job. The tile shop were selling you the correct stuff at a fair price. It will be a polymer modified adhesive specifically designed for porcelain tiles. The problem (if you can call it that) with porcelain is that it is virtually non porous as a result of which, normal cement will not bond to the tile.

 

[bwatt]

Bog standard cement will definitely not do the job. The tile shop were selling you the correct stuff at a fair price. It will be a polymer modified adhesive specifically designed for porcelain tiles. The problem (if you can call it that) with porcelain is that it is virtually non porous as a result of which, normal cement will not bond to the tile.

Im not stating you dont know what your talking about as the shop also said this but i thought at £25 a bag and i need about 4 of them was a little too much just to lay tiles and my father said cement would do,we have not started the job yet and i am not to late to get the stuff but you know how it is some shops would sell you the shop and all thats in it if they could and i just thought this stuff was just a little too much for what it is and not really needed,my patio has cement outside on the ground,you do know that these tiles are for outside,does this not matter,i take it i still need this stuff for this sort of tiles,these are not for inside house,but for outside on my patio,please clear this up with me so i dont need to go an buy stuff i dont need,i still would like further advise as this seem to be an expensive way of laying tiles as that cost in bags,i can get a bigger bag of cement for peanuts,but i suppose this is not any good for the job,just when i thought the guys where trying to rip me off a little they where right all the time.

 

[breezer]

You don't believe what you were told by the shop or the poster who replied so as i know nothing about the subject, but as i see it you have several choices

cement them down and see what happens

lay a test area say 4 tiles, 4 with cement, 4 with the special stuff

look else where for the "special stuff"

lay decking instead

choice is yours

 

[bwatt]

So where can i buy this stuff online and high street in the biggest bags etc available i am laying about 22 square meters,i looked in srewfix but cant see if there is anything in there will do,im sure this shop sells at top price and im sure there are other places that would sell same stuff but for less,any ideas,maybe some place like b&q etc.

My father said about putting some stuff in the cement not sure what its called need to ask him again maybe this bonds it better,maybe i will just need to go out and get these bags but at 25 pounds a shot im sure there are cheaper bags out there,also when i ask how many bags i need for 22 spaure meters what sized bags would that be?

 

[Jasonb]

Go with proper tile adhesive, the additive the shop was talking about was probably Porcel Bond which is waht BAL put into their adhesives to help them bond to porcelain.

You want a water and frost proof adhesive & grout. Depending on the surface you are tiling you will most likely need to use a "Thickbed solid bed trowel" to make sure there are no voids under the tile, this means you will probably only get about 4 sq mts out of a 25Kg bag so buy half a dozen. Go to a decent tile shop not a shed or Topps Tiles but £25 a bag is not a bad retail price.

Jason

 

[bwatt]

Go with proper tile adhesive, the additive the shop was talking about was probably Porcel Bond which is waht BAL put into their adhesives to help them bond to porcelain.

You want a water and frost proof adhesive & grout. Depending on the surface you are tiling you will most likely need to use a "Thickbed solid bed trowel" to make sure there are no voids under the tile, this means you will probably only get about 4 sq mts out of a 25Kg bag so buy half a dozen. Go to a decent tile shop not a shed or Topps Tiles but £25 a bag is not a bad retail price.

Jason

Well it was topps tiles i purchased my tiles from,are they bad?I could not find something i liked and was in there shop and found ones i did and as they where discontinued i got them for even less so was well happy,and it was them that said i needed this adhesive stuff.

Now i need to know as my father thought that cement would have done i need to correct him now but he does do building and has lots of building tools like trowels etc i take it these tools will do fo this project,i dont want to spend wasted money on tools as stuff for a one off job,when maybe his tools will do the same.

Just incase he does not know the right way about doing this job what about of stuff does he put down to lay the tiles on?There is already cement on the surface and so he would be putting this stuff down and then tiles but not sure what size of bed he needs under tiles,i also when i was buying my tiles got a couple of bags of grey grout for my tiles for later when job is done,i take i got the right stuff guys know they are for outside and so should know what grout i needed,will it say on the bags of grout if its frost waterproof etc as mentioned above,as i dont want any problems with this job later because of wrong stuff used etc.

But i am very surprised on the bond stuff i need,i and my father thought cement would do the trick glad i asked this question now but as i have 22 square to do this stuff is going to cost me a fortune,the guy when i purchased my tiles im sure said i only needed 3 and half bags of the stuff he tried to sell cant remember if 25kg bags or not but they where not very big maybe smaller than that and he said that would do.

But im looking for places that will sell me the stuff and cheapest prices possible online or high street,i take the likes of b&q etc does not have this sort of stuff any ideas anyone.

I want to get this job started soon and need all the advise i can get before starting.

 

[breezer]

as you are not sure what this stuff is, why not go back to the shop, ask, and then google for it

 

[Jasonb]

If you could actually tell us what the "Stuff" is grout & Adhesive we will be in a better postion to advise you

If you use the type of trowel I said you will get the right depth of adhesive. Is your dad planing on using neat cement or mixing it with some sand

As it was Topps they mostly sell BAL products, Have a look at this pdf, it gives trowel types (see if your dad has one) coverage dependant on trowel type used though this is a bit optimistic and types of adhesive.

Jason

 

[gcol]

Did you forget the pdf Jason?

 

[Jasonb]

Good to see someone is paying attention , link added to previous post.

Jason

 

[bwatt]

I asked my father tonight again and he said maybe better get the proper stuff but when i told him the price per bag he said what a price,he was prety sure what he would use would do the trick but then when i mentioned about this forum he was not so sure.

I dont know how he would mix the cement as he is the builder here and about sand and stuff i have no idea what he would do but he has done lots of building jobs and knows what he is doing but as for porclain tiles outside i think is a first for him,he did to tiles inside his house on wall but thats a different ball game.

But he did mention something tonight about some glue stuff he uses for building that he would mix with the cement and water and can be used on all sorts of stuff and sais that the cement i think becomes sticky,i just called him and he said its called pva what that means i dont know adhesive i suppose maybe the last letter in the pva.
Anyone know?

 

[breezer]

i think its poly vinyl acetate.

builders use it a lot, obviously you don't watch ground force

 

[bwatt]

i think its poly vinyl acetate.

builders use it a lot, obviously you don't watch ground force

So what does that mean?Is the stuff used with cement ok or is ground force a programme that sorts problems.

 

[breezer]

fancy never wathing ground force.

ground force is a garden make over show, but they do it properly and over 2 days unlike some make over shows.

the builder, Tommy Walsh often says ..........and i have covered it with a layer of pva to help the new "stuff" bond to the existing.

suff depends on what he is doing