Time control for electric radiators

[JohnW2]

Like this
Thanks John.

Yep, just like that

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

(in the following, use [ and ] where I have typed { and } )
1... type {url=xxxxxx} (where xxxxxx is the url of the link)
2... then type the text you want to appear, such as "click here" (without the quote marks)
3... then type {/url}

Alternatively:

1. Type the text you want & highlight it
2. Click the Link button and then type, or paste, the URL into the box that appears

Significantly easier.

 

[Daveydub]

Not only easier but better chance that I will remember that Cheers.

 

[JohnW2]

Not only easier but better chance that I will remember that Cheers.

It is easier - but, beware, at least in my hands it doesn't always work, or work as one expects - hence I tend to use the 'less simple' method.

It's not all that much different. One still has to copy/paste the url, and type the text that one wants to appear. The only extra thing that one has to do (and remember to do) is to type (same convention as before) {url=} and {/url}. However, if the 'easier' method works reliably for you, that's great!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OOI, what problems have you experienced?

 

[motorbiking]

I’d stick with the storage heaters and just have them on low and use a couple of good quality space heaters. my first flat had this set up and i used the storage heaters with the damper on max and then brought it up to temp as needed with electric fan heater or electric rads.

much easier with heat in the infrastructure

 

[JohnW2]

I’d stick with the storage heaters and just have them on low and use a couple of good quality space heaters. my first flat had this set up and i used the storage heaters with the damper on max and then brought it up to temp as needed with electric fan heater or electric rads. much easier with heat in the infrastructure

That's a good point. Although, at first sight, it is inefficient and wasteful for most of the heat from the storage heaters being output during the daytime when, as is common, the house/flat is unoccupied, the fact that the building would get pretty cold by evening if this is not done means that a lot more heating (with much more expensive electricity) might be required in the evening. However, as you imply, if the house can be kept warm with 'cheap electricity' during the day, then only a fairly modest top-up (with much more expensive electricity) will be needed during the evening.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

I don't suppose anyone does storage heaters with motorised output control Though I suppose it would be possible to DIY it.
With that, you could keep much of the heat in during the day and let it out when needed (stat/timer combo).

Or going a bit OTT, a large storage tank with immersion heater(s) on E7 night, and feeding a conventional wet radiator system.

A timer on the whole consumer unit would also be interesting but I doubt that this is possible.

Yes, it's quite doable. Pick a timer, add a large relay/contactor, put the supply to the second CU through that - OR put each outgoing circuit on the CU through one pole of the contactor (that's how the offices I used to work in were done).
However, a normal AC coil contactor hums when energised - there are arrangements that rectify the mains and use a DC coil to avoid that.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't suppose anyone does storage heaters with motorised output control Though I suppose it would be possible to DIY it. With that, you could keep much of the heat in during the day and let it out when needed (stat/timer combo).

I think those who are out all day already try to achieve that - by leaving the shutters/whatever closed during the day and open them when they get home, but still find that ther's not enough heat available in the evening. I suppose there's a limit to how well insulated the bricks can be without the heaters becoming unacceptably large.

Or going a bit OTT, a large storage tank with immersion heater(s) on E7 night, and feeding a conventional wet radiator system.

Many moons ago, a friend of mine tried that, and I think ended up concluding that one would need massive tank(s)/cylinder(s) and many immersions for it to be an even half-viable system. Don't forget that a standard immersion is 3kW, but a CH boiler can easily be ten times that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[motorbiking]

There are a couple of Smart storage heaters on the market and also those with fan assist, which are much better insulated and can stay hot internally longer.
https://www.storageheatersdirect.com/smart-storage-heaters/
https://www.storageheatersdirect.com/fan-assisted-storage-heaters/

 

[Daveydub]

Thanks for the thoughts. A 125litre cylinder will heat up (6 kw) in 70 mins therefore if you used this as a heat store you would theoretically have a 6kw output available for 70 minutes. Of course once it had cooled below 50 degrees extracting further heat to warm a room would be difficult so it would actually be useful for rather less than 70 minutes. This gives a pointer as to the size of storage that you would need to run a conventional heating system.
I did look at the Elnur heaters before and what troubles me about them is that they do not give any figures for heat loss when output is off. Her existing heaters are kept off untill she comes home from work but she often wakes in the night to throw off a duvet when they start heating up because so much heat is emitted through the case rather than the grill.
For a cylinder, the manufacturers tell you how good the insulation is by telling you the heat loss in 24 hours and if only they would quote heat loss when heater output is off we could do some calculations about how effective they would be by comparison with the existing heaters.
Anyone fitted many and can give me a clue as to how well they retain heat.
Cheers
Dave

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for the thoughts. A 125litre cylinder will heat up (6 kw) in 70 mins therefore if you used this as a heat store you would theoretically have a 6kw output available for 70 minutes. Of course once it had cooled below 50 degrees extracting further heat to warm a room would be difficult so it would actually be useful for rather less than 70 minutes. This gives a pointer as to the size of storage that you would need to run a conventional heating system.

Quite so. Another way of looking at it is to think about (or estimate by calculation) how big a cylinder one would need to store all the hot water generated by a CH boilier during a period of, say, 6 or 8 hours of (intermittent) operation.

I did look at the Elnur heaters before and what troubles me about them is that they do not give any figures for heat loss when output is off. Her existing heaters are kept off untill she comes home from work but she often wakes in the night to throw off a duvet when they start heating up because so much heat is emitted through the case rather than the grill.

Indeed. As I said, whilst it is theoretically possible to insulate a storage heater so that it retains heat for as long as one wants, in practice they would probably become far too bulky if they were insulated as much as 'evening heat users' would like.

Of course, as recently discussed in another thread, if it ever happens (which I personally don't think it will any decade soon!) that nocturnal electric vehicle charging comes to dominate the demand for electricity, then 'cheap rate electricity' might come to be during the daytime, which would suit your daughter's (and many others') storage heaters very well!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

she is at work all day (when the house is warm) and comes hometo a cold flat in the evening.

Do you know how old the storage heaters are?

 

[Daveydub]

I guess that they are 20/25 years. They have an inf plate saying NC2550Auto or NC3300Combi. The numbers refer to the size and Combi has a convector heater in addition to the storage.
That second link from motorbiking also has a helpful "storage heaters vs electric radiators" page which has helped reassure me that she is in fact making the right choice.
I will remove the storage heaters and hang whichever radiators she ends up with then, when the electrician is swapping the supplies over, I will point out the timeclock & relay arrangement mentioned.
Thanks everyone for their time

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That second link from motorbiking also has a helpful "storage heaters vs electric radiators" page which has helped reassure me that she is in fact making the right choice.

If you say so.

Personally I'd be dubious about the integrity of a company who say things like:

Electric Radiators
Pros

• Lower running costs than conventional electric heaters – uses built-in energy management systems
• Totally enclosed heating elements prevent blackening and staining of walls

All electric heaters are "100% efficient" - they turn all the energy they consume into heat.

And I doubt you could get elements any more enclosed than the ones in storage heaters.