Timer switch

[JohnW2]

Am I right in assuming that I would need to add the suppressor to only one lamp fitting?

Yes.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

I am not sure how the "suppressor" got introduced into the thread.
It is designed to provide a sink where there are problems with low-watt lamps (like LEDS) from glowing di=ue to induced voltages.

I have no idea whhy you are going down this route. It seems that you are worrying about a problem that you don't have.

Go back to the maker and get a refund if the spec says it works on fluorescents of 17watt minimum and it doesn't.

Buy the switch, connect it up. If you have a problem, call the maker, or come back.

 

[JohnW2]

I am not sure how the "suppressor" got introduced into the thread. It is designed to provide a sink where there are problems with low-watt lamps (like LEDS) from glowing di=ue to induced voltages.

It is, but it may also be effective in those cases when low-watt lamps are glowing/flickering (when 'off') due to the electronics of a device using those lamps as a path to neutral for its power supply.

I have no idea whhy you are going down this route. It seems that you are worrying about a problem that you don't have.

It's not the OP's fault - it's the fault of me (and maybe others). I have acknowledged that he may well not need the suppressor but, as for 'a problem you don't have', as I've said, the reviews of this product do not indicate that such will necessarily be the case.

... Go back to the maker and get a refund if the spec says it works on fluorescents of 17watt minimum and it doesn't.

As I've said, the specs of devices like this are a bit unclear/ambiguous. They don't usually (and not in this case) talk about a total fluorescent load of at least 17W. As I said, it could be that there has to be at least one CFL which individually is ≥17W. The OP will discover when he tries and then, as you say, can decide what to do if he has a problem.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JBR]

I have no idea whhy you are going down this route. It seems that you are worrying about a problem that you don't have.

Not worrying, I assure you.
I was simply asking for advice (on an advice forum!) in case a problem should arise. Hopefully it won't.

 

[JBR]

... Go back to the maker and get a refund if the spec says it works on fluorescents of 17watt minimum and it doesn't.

As I've said, the specs of devices like this are a bit unclear/ambiguous. They don't usually (and not in this case) talk about a total fluorescent load of at least 17W. As I said, it could be that there has to be at least one CFL which individually is ≥17W. The OP will discover when he tries and then, as you say, can decide what to do if he has a problem.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks. That's exactly why I was asking.

(Of course, should flickering occur, yet another option occurs to me: to substitute one 18W fluorescent for a 10W!)

 

[Taylortwocities]

(Of course, should flickering occur, yet another option occurs to me: to substitute one 18W fluorescent for a 10W!)

But the switch needs AT LEAST 17watts. IIRC, 10 is less than 17….

 

[JBR]

(Of course, should flickering occur, yet another option occurs to me: to substitute one 18W fluorescent for a 10W!)

But the switch needs AT LEAST 17watts. IIRC, 10 is less than 17….

Yes, but I have seven (7) 10W lamps in the circuit. Read back!

 

[Taylortwocities]

Are we having a communication problem? I do not understand what you mean.

When this all started you said

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic-Wall-Switch-Timer-Day/dp/B0018S13PO

The spec. says that the minimum load must be 40W resistive or 17W fluorescent (and not suitable for LEDs).

I want to use it for seven 10W fluorescent outdoor lamps (wired in parallel, of course). Am I right in assuming that this would equate to 70W, and that the timer switch would be suitable?

Thanks.

And I replied that as 70watts was bigger than 17watts you should be OK.

So you should be OK. End of.
Or have I missed something

 

[JBR]

Are we having a communication problem? I do not understand what you mean.

When this all started you said

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic-Wall-Switch-Timer-Day/dp/B0018S13PO

The spec. says that the minimum load must be 40W resistive or 17W fluorescent (and not suitable for LEDs).

I want to use it for seven 10W fluorescent outdoor lamps (wired in parallel, of course). Am I right in assuming that this would equate to 70W, and that the timer switch would be suitable?

Thanks.

And I replied that as 70watts was bigger than 17watts you should be OK.

So you should be OK. End of.
Or have I missed something

And then I said:

"Thank you. I had actually arrived at that computation myself, believe it or not!

The thing is that I don't understand the electronic components of these fluorescent lamps and their function. The manufacturers' statement that the item is suitable for minimum 40W resistive load, yet minimum 17W in the case of fluorescents, made me wonder whether there is some characteristic of these low power things that makes them behave differently. Yes, logically 7 x 10W would equal 70W, but I had to ask to make sure.

I do realise that resistors are a completely different thing, but the concept that series resistors are additive and parallel resistors reduce the total resistance made me wonder whether there may be some comparison. But don't shoot me down! It would be a miracle if you could reduce power consumption by adding MORE lamps to a circuit, of course."

Which JohnW pretty much then confirmed:

"Although 70 is bigger than 17, if one thinks about the mechanism, of the potential problem when this sort of product is used with CFLs (or LEDs, come to that), I'm not convinced that it's necessarily going to be 'OK' just because the total CFL load is >17W - could it be that (although I don't recall ever having seen this stated) one has to have at least one individual CFL >17W to be sure of no problems? In the context which interest us, CFLs almost certainly do not behave just like simple resistors, the values of which can be combined 'in the usual way' when several are in parallel.

As you will see from what I've about to write to JBR, it seems that several people have had problems when using this timing to control CFL loads with a total appreciably above 17W - which may give some support to what I suggest above."

 

[JohnW2]

(Of course, should flickering occur, yet another option occurs to me: to substitute one 18W fluorescent for a 10W!)

But the switch needs AT LEAST 17watts. IIRC, 10 is less than 17….

I think you are forgetting some of the story, and also misunderstanding what the OP has written above.

As you will recall, the OP is proposing to have 7 x 10W CFLs (70W total). What he was suggesting above is that, if he did experience 'flickering' problems, just in case my speculation was correct, he could instead try 6 x 10W plus 1 x 18W (78W total).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JBR]

I've changed the switches and wired in the timer switch. Here's a picture of the old switch:

Untitled

• JBR
• 12 Oct 2014
• 1

You'll notice there isn't a grommit in sight! (There is now.)

The left and middle switches are for porch and hall lamps, and the switch on the right is for the outdoor lamps which are on a separate circuit breaker. I attached small labels to help me remember where each of the wires went after I removed the switches.

I hadn't a clue what each of the colours meant (red, black, blue, yellow) except that the BLACK wire attached to the right switch was live, as were the two red ones attached to the left switch*. The earth wires are obviously wired to the back box. Most appeared from a conduit leading upwards (presumably to the loft) and three from behind where another switch is mounted on the wall of a bedroom. The previous owner of this house was called Roger (the Bodger).

Anyway, I thought that the best thing to do was to just wire them up exactly as they had been: to the left and middle switches on the new unit on the left, and the two on the right to the new timer switch. The porch and hall switches worked correctly, but I had to leave the timer switch for an hour for the internal battery to charge up. After that I set the date/time and timer and, thankfully, it worked perfectly.

Fortunately, there was no flickering of the outdoor lights (when off), so it appears that if the TOTAL load exceeds 17W (fluorescent) the switch is suitable.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice, JohnW2.

(* I know I'm going to get shouted at here, but I discovered this by using one of those detested screwdrivers with the LED lamp!)

 

[JohnW2]

Fortunately, there was no flickering of the outdoor lights (when off), so it appears that if the TOTAL load exceeds 17W (fluorescent) the switch is suitable.

That's good to hear, and we thought that it might be the case - although it's apparent from some of those reviews that some people's experiences have been different. I certainly wouldn't put any money on, say 17 x 1W lamps being without troubles!

Anyway, thanks again for your advice, JohnW2. (* I know I'm going to get shouted at here, but I discovered this by using one of those detested screwdrivers with the LED lamp!)

You're welcome. I'll keep my eyes closed whilst the flak flies around

Kind Regards, John