To cut or not to cut? - that is the question...

[blup]

Ta. But any reason I need to double up hatch hole surrounding joists? I thought there was only a single similar joist needed to surround the hatch hole as per https://www.diydata.com/carpentry/loft-hatch/loft-hatch.php?

View attachment 340792

I should have called the trimmers the trimming joists i.e. those at right angles to the trimmed joists. They are the ones doubled up as I understand it.

 

[advisewelcome]

As said my present ladder, has a pair of sliding pivoted hinges, on the edge of the loft opening. The top end of the ladder has a hinged bracket, which is hinged where it meets the top of the ladder, and where it fixes to the loft floor - that forces the ladder to follow a fixed arc, as it is pushed up out of the way.

Remember, your ladder will need space above, when you push it up, pull it down. It needs to be carefully planned.

Thanks. Will consider all that.

I do notice there is step up from the joists connected to the ceiling to the a main beam that we are standing on. Is this going to get in the way of the ladder retracting - if they don't go up towards the wall (yellow arrow) but instead go up the other way (green arrow).

 

[advisewelcome]

As said my present ladder, has a pair of sliding pivoted hinges, on the edge of the loft opening. The top end of the ladder has a hinged bracket, which is hinged where it meets the top of the ladder, and where it fixes to the loft floor - that forces the ladder to follow a fixed arc, as it is pushed up out of the way.

Remember, your ladder will need space above, when you push it up, pull it down. It needs to be carefully planned.



Generally, yes. My last one came with an L shaped tube, to hook the ladder down. My present one has a tube with a plastic hook on the end, which serves to hook the ladder down, and to release the door catch. It came with a door catch.

Avoid the push the hatch to latch, push to release types, they jam.

Thanks for that. Yes, some of the arcs on the packaging of the ladders and shows how some of them afix.

If I can't get 70-80cm back retracted ladders, they will have to retract in the direction of the green arrow (rather than the yellow arrow). Is that beam is gonna get in the way and I am onto a hiding if I get the ladders to go that way?

Guess I have to make the surrounding joists around the hatch flush with that higher beam and so its flat surface.

 

[JohnD]

You would fix the ladder to the high timber.

 

[advisewelcome]

You would fix the ladder to the high timber.

Ta. may have posted twice as i don't know how to use a computer either.

Hmmm... okay, the high beam sits on those joists, which all sit on the wall.

That wall in the bedroom below has some decorative archi-thingy on the ceiling.

Assume I have to come in a good 15-20cm+ from that loft big beam for the hatch hole to begin.

Perching the ladder onto that high beam will mean ladder will clear the lip and make it down the hatch hole when pulled down?

 

[JohnD]

It will sit on the top edge of the beam and slope down. About a 1 in 4 slope I would guess.

You could add a substantial trimmer if you want.

 

[advisewelcome]

Ta. Just getting a little bill of materials together before 12pm for this project.

https://www.diydata.com/carpentry/loft-hatch/loft-hatch.php


Reckon I need:
- Wood to clad a lining around the loft hole
- Wood piece 85 x 85cm to make a loft hatch (plywood?)
- Some wood to surround the loft hatch (maybe)?
- Coach screws to secure
- Screws to secure things together
- Joist wood to secure before cutting
- Joist wood to make the new hatch surround

.. think thats it?

 

[robinbanks]

Insulation for the back of the loft hatch board, and self adhesive foam tape to make the edges a good seal

And sort the rest of the loft insulation out while you're up there. Aim for 300mm of clean, uncompressed, well fitted wool in two or more layers, the lowest layer running between the ceiling joists, the layer above at right angles

 

[advisewelcome]

Insulation for the back of the loft hatch board, and self adhesive foam tape to make the edges a good seal

Ta.


Bit nervous about where to stick this hole. Once its there, its not going away easily.

It will sit on the top edge of the beam and slope down. About a 1 in 4 slope I would guess.

You could add a substantial trimmer if you want.

If i have to fit the ladder sideways (green arrow) - the main beam is about 10cm higher then the joist and needs about 20cm to avoid the ceiling edge - that is 2:1 slope which is less steeper than a 1:4 slope of the ladder movement - so if attaching the ladder to the main beam that would not work (I think?). Suppose I can just add a higher trimmer joist so the ladder clears and attach it to that edge. But I don't need to waste time freaking out about this. OK, ok... I think I can chill about this.

Darn shame a 75-80cm contracted ladder length which can extend down to 255cm bedrooom height isn't easily available.

 

[JohnD]

you can put the new hatch anywhere. It does not have to be in the same place as the old one.

 

[advisewelcome]

Best way to cut this out on is by drilling some holes and using a jig saw? If its not plasterboard then have to do something else?

you can put the new hatch anywhere. It does not have to be in the same place as the old one.

Hi, thanks. We are moving the hatch to a new location.

And thinking about it, make sense to have the ladder facing a space then walking up it and not facing a wall. So will go with moving the ladder into the green arrow direction.

Made some progress today. Pic after first new joist piece.

Next one in below..

But I don't think it is very square at all. Maybe 1cm-0.5cm smaller gap on the bottom between the new pieces then gap on the top - not sure if should bother trying to correct this and how?

Also are there are any tricks to cutting that ceiling? - its lath and plaster stuff (lots of small strips of wood with nails into the joists) and not plasterboard. Maybe drill guide holes and then saw it from below rather than the top? Use a angle grinder? Anyway of ensuring it doesn't drop down and carry the dust down with it into the bedroom?

Having a hard time buying a piece of plywood 70 x 87cm which I can use as hatch? - not sure if I can make a hatch this big by joining some peices together? Insulation for the hatch would be a solid square piece of insulation I can buy from somewhere and attach to the back of the hatch?

 

[big-all]

just keep in mind iff you need to manoeuvre long or sheet material, any ladder facing towards or away from a wall will have reduced access as the input end or top end will restrict movement so restrict length and width that can fit in

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

just keep in mind iff you need to manoeuvre long or sheet material, any ladder facing towards or away from a wall will have reduced access as the input end or top end will restrict movement so restrict length and width that can fit in

A simple, strongly mounted pulley, fixed to a substantial part of the roof, over the hole, makes getting stuff up and down, much easier.

 

[trojanhawrs]

But I don't think it is very square at all. Maybe 1cm-0.5cm smaller gap on the bottom between the new pieces then gap on the top - not sure if should bother trying to correct this and how?

It certainly doesn't look it. You can use the 3, 4, 5 rule to check for square e.g. if you measure 600 along the joist from your noggin and mark it, then 800 along your noggin, it should be 1000 between the 2 marks if it's square. Then measure off that one for the other, and check between the 2 corners, they should be exactly the same. You can use any number but the longer the better, I'm assuming those joists are 400 or 450 centres so the numbers I used should work for you.

 

[advisewelcome]

Hi, great info, but alas didn't see it and everything is a bit wonky now., with a bit of ceiling damage....

OMG the mess...

Now, where the heck do I find ladders from? Most of them seem to have an anchor metal pieces which I guess you have to tread on when you are up the top? - anyway to avoid this? Also are there any suggested ways of putting handles or holders once into the loft for safety - so u don't fall back?

I have the light and switch near the old hatch hole and have daisy chained another light near the new hatch hole. Any easy way of moving that switch to the new hatch whilst keeping the old light?