Today's good news

[JohnD]

"Two internet ticket touts who resold tickets for events by artists including Ed Sheeran have been ordered to repay more than £6m.

Peter Hunter, 53, and David Smith, 68, were convicted in 2020 of three counts of fraudulent trading and one of possessing articles for fraud.

The pair benefited from their crimes by almost £9m, Leeds Crown Court was told.

They have been given three months to repay £6,167,522.02 or face an extra eight years in prison.

In February 2020, Hunter was jailed for four years and Smith for two-and-a-half years."

 

[JohnD]

"China has removed six officials from Britain - including one of its most senior UK diplomats - two months after violence at its Manchester consulate.

The UK had requested the officials waive their right to diplomatic immunity to allow detectives to question them about October's incident."

 

[sxturbo]

"Two internet ticket touts who resold tickets for events by artists including Ed Sheeran have been ordered to repay more than £6m.

Peter Hunter, 53, and David Smith, 68, were convicted in 2020 of three counts of fraudulent trading and one of possessing articles for fraud.

The pair benefited from their crimes by almost £9m, Leeds Crown Court was told.

They have been given three months to repay £6,167,522.02 or face an extra eight years in prison.

In February 2020, Hunter was jailed for four years and Smith for two-and-a-half years."

Good.

How on earth did they make that sort of dough though.

 

[ellal]

Good.

How on earth did they make that sort of dough though.

Probably the same way as this lot...

Driving test slots sold for five times their value online amid national shortage

And...

Driving instructor slammed for selling last minute test slots at five times the price

Personally I don't see any difference from the ticket tout operation...

Oh sorry, only one. The driving test scam involves a government agency, so chances are they won't want their incompetency revealed in any court case!

 

[JohnD]

.

 

[motorbiking]

The difference between the two examples is that ADRs are permitted to book tests for their pupils, so the process allows such a "service". In the case of the particular ADR, it seems there is a corruption and bribery issue going on with someone in the test centre giving a "heads up" that the slots are about to be released. Thats clearly an offence on the part of the ADR and the insider: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/23/crossheading/general-bribery-offences

With the Ticket touting Hunter and Smith was a landmark case as they both appealed their initial conviction claiming no harm. Some news outlets are wrongly reporting the offence as sec 933. One of the offences was https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/993

These concert tickets are sold as not for resale by unauthorised resellers. Hunter and Smith set up a network of bots to buy the tickets under fraudulent identities. Therefore the aim was always to deceive the seller and breach the non transferable restriction. They were hugely successful.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I really don't see the harm in ticket touting. It's just retailing, nobody is forced to pay whatever price and a concert is definitely not one of life's necessities.

If you want to see where the really obscene profits are made you'd need to go up the chain to the music companies, promoters and artists. Concert ticket prices have become silly now, I don't know why anyone pays even the daft face value but they do and it's a free choice.

I'd always thought that T&Cs stuck onto products aren't enforceable. If you want to sell that multipack pack of crisps individually then you can, you won't get dragged away even if it says "not for individual resale" on it - provided you add a label with the ingredients and any other statutory requirements. I don't see the difference.

I've sold collectables that stated "Free sample" on them. Did I break the law by not obeying the packet instructions and selling them?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I really don't see the harm in ticket touting. It's just retailing, nobody is forced to pay whatever price and a concert is definitely not one of life's necessities.

If you want to see where the really obscene profits are made you'd need to go up the chain to the music companies, promoters and artists. Concert ticket prices have become silly now, I don't know why anyone pays even the daft face value but they do and it's a free choice.

I'd always thought that T&Cs stuck onto products aren't enforceable. If you want to sell that multipack pack of crisps individually then you can, you won't get dragged away even if it says "not for individual resale" on it - provided you add a label with the ingredients and any other statutory requirements. I don't see the difference.

I've sold collectables that stated "Free sample" on them. Did I break the law by not obeying the packet instructions and selling them?

Although it can maybe be considered a first world problem to an extent, the harm is many people can be priced out of attending. Yes, the original face values are often quite high to start with, however when tickets are hoovered up by folk like this then resold for x times face value, ordinary punters can't afford them.

As with most things these days however, I agree (major) concerts are becoming even more of a money grab then they ever were. e.g. Ticketmaster and their 'dynamic pricing' scam ... oops I mean model.

Bruce Springsteen defends ticket prices for forthcoming tour

Bruce Springsteen has responded to criticism over the ticket prices for his forthcoming tour. Some of the tickets cost $5,000 each.

www.nme.com

Most of us remember the good old days when a concert came up for sale with maybe two or three different priced tickets, you bought them direct from the venue or the reseller, they got posted out and that was it.

What we have now is no doubt considered progress ...

 

[motorbiking]

Its about value add. And they aren't adding any value.

If the concert ticket vendor wants to add, that this is a non-assignable, non-transferable ticket this is entirely enforceable. They just need to get entrants to bring ID and the problem ends. The ticket is a licence to attend and they can add any terms they like subject to consumer law and unfair terms etc..

 

[transam]

If people want to pay stupid amounts of money to stand in crowd listening to some bloke sing
Or watch 22 blokes kick a ball around a field that’s up to them ?

Who cares ? Not me

 

[noseall]

If people want to pay stupid amounts of money to stand in crowd listening to some bloke sing
Or watch 22 blokes kick a ball around a field that’s up to them ?

Who cares ? Not me

Do you still sleep with your V8 engine?

 

[transam]

Do you still sleep with your V8 engine?

No cannot say that I ever slept with an engine

Although I have shared a bedroom with a 1971 Norton Commando

 

[noseall]

No cannot say that I ever slept with an engine

Have you ever paid stupid money to watch a car race up a hill?

 

[crystal ball]

Although it can maybe be considered a first world problem to an extent, the harm is many people can be priced out of attending. Yes, the original face values are often quite high to start with, however when tickets are hoovered up by folk like this then resold for x times face value, ordinary punters can't afford them.

As with most things these days however, I agree (major) concerts are becoming even more of a money grab then they ever were. e.g. Ticketmaster and their 'dynamic pricing' scam ... oops I mean model.

Bruce Springsteen defends ticket prices for forthcoming tour

Bruce Springsteen has responded to criticism over the ticket prices for his forthcoming tour. Some of the tickets cost $5,000 each.

www.nme.com

Most of us remember the good old days when a concert came up for sale with maybe two or three different priced tickets, you bought them direct from the venue or the reseller, they got posted out and that was it.

What we have now is no doubt considered progress ...

Many only accepted postal orders back in the day, if you were unsuccessful they were sent back.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Most of us remember the good old days when a concert came up for sale with maybe two or three different priced tickets, you bought them direct from the venue or the reseller, they got posted out and that was it.

What we have now is no doubt considered progress ...

Some of us even remember the days when artists and songsmiths made money from record sales and radio needle time, so didn't need to earn as much money from live performances. The model has changed, but the current download fee is so small as to make it difficult for a lot of artist. Not my own gripe, but that of the professional musician who lives next door.