Toilet Flush not removing all paper

[MarcMCFC1986]

Hello

Just bought a new house, and we're having a bit of a problem with the toilet flush.

When we flush the toilet, most of the waste goes - but the paper just seems to sit on top of the water whilst the flush cycle is happening. Once the flush appears to have finished I am still able to pump the handle down 4-5 more times (so there is still water in the cistern) - so that does remove some of the toilet paper. However, we then have to wait for the cistern to refill then flush it again, sometimes twice, before all the paper goes. So far, it's just a bit of a pain for us - but could prove a bit a bit awkward for guests, whenever we're allowed to have visitors.

I read online that the most common cause of the toilet paper not flushing is that there is a blockage of waste paper somewhere down the line - so I've given it a good plunge with one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01HBS1PAC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Could anybody advise what else I could do to resolve the problem, before calling somebody out? I guess with there still being a fair amount of water left in the cistern when the flush finishes, there may be a way to get that out in the first flush - rather than having to pump the handle 4-5 more times.

(I'm at work at present, so if you'll need photos/videos of the cistern, I'll have to come back to you later this evening!)

Thank you in advance.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Good morning Marc,

You say new house - new to you I’m presuming as opposed to new build? you need to check the level of water in the cistern. Sounds like the syphon membrane could also be partially split and if it has a flush pipe then there can be a small blockage in these.

 

[MarcMCFC1986]

Good morning Marc,

You say new house - new to you I’m presuming as opposed to new build? you need to check the level of water in the cistern. Sounds like the syphon membrane could also be partially split and if it has a flush pipe then there can be a small blockage in these.

Yes, new to me - it's a 1930's Semi.

I checked the water level after it had filled up, and it was up the correct level - it just doesn't all appear to be draining out when we flush.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Does it have the conventional siphon or the new type of 'Flush Valve'? Your description leads me to think it's a siphon, so you may likely have a 'Dual Flush' type for water saving. Try pressing the handle down to flush the toilet and keep it held down until the flush has finished. This should allow the siphon to flush the full contents of the cistern.

'Half flush' is really just for No. 1's. Full flush for everything else.

 

[MarcMCFC1986]

Does it have the conventional siphon or the new type of 'Flush Valve'? Your description leads me to think it's a siphon, so you may likely have a 'Dual Flush' type for water saving. Try pressing the handle down to flush the toilet and keep it held down until the flush has finished. This should allow the siphon to flush the full contents of the cistern.

'Half flush' is really just for No. 1's. Full flush for everything else.

I'll take a photo when I get home, but when I had a look myself the other day it looked pretty old fashioned so I'd be surprised if it was a dual-flush - but I'm no expert.

I've text my girlfriend who is at home and asked her to take a photo.

 

[Diver Fred]

With house being built then I'd say the bathroom has been refitted by now so would guess it's a dual flush syphon.
The other item to 'check' - but if you do not like getting your hands mucky, get a professional to do is - to check where the flush pipe enters the toilet, ease the boot seal off the toilet and feel around (or use a mirror to see) the flush pipe in the toilet to see if the pipe is 'guided' in place by putty (it's and old plumbers 'trick') or worse still, wodged up paper. If it is, loosen the flush pipe at the cistern, ease the pipe away from the toilet and clean out the flush pipe entry. If the guiding stuffing is excessive or badly put in it can affect the flush action.

TIC - was going to suggest a 'Shataf' so you don't use as much toilet paper.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

'Dual Flush' is simply a small hole built into the siphon, so when the water level drops to a certain point, it breaks the siphonic action and thus stops the flush. By holding the handle down effectively blocks the hole, so the siphonic action carries on to empty the cistern.

Some, such as the 'Dauntless Duoflush' were around in the 70's, it's not a new idea.

 

[MarcMCFC1986]

I've got my girlfriend to take a photo. Not sure if this helps at all, but at least you can see what I'm working with. She also did a video of it flushing, but I can't upload this.

 

[MarcMCFC1986]

With house being built then I'd say the bathroom has been refitted by now so would guess it's a dual flush syphon.
The other item to 'check' - but if you do not like getting your hands mucky, get a professional to do is - to check where the flush pipe enters the toilet, ease the boot seal off the toilet and feel around (or use a mirror to see) the flush pipe in the toilet to see if the pipe is 'guided' in place by putty (it's and old plumbers 'trick') or worse still, wodged up paper. If it is, loosen the flush pipe at the cistern, ease the pipe away from the toilet and clean out the flush pipe entry. If the guiding stuffing is excessive or badly put in it can affect the flush action.

TIC - was going to suggest a 'Shataf' so you don't use as much toilet paper.

Thanks - I'll watch a YouTube video before deciding whether to give this a go myself.

 

[Diver Fred]

Well that picture does indicate the bathroom has been refitted. Close coupled (i.e. 'sits' on toilet) cistern?

Do think the syphon is 'Dual Flush'. Have a look at linky. hopefully the one in your cistern is de-mountable.

 

[MarcMCFC1986]

Well that picture does indicate the bathroom has been refitted. Close coupled (i.e. 'sits' on toilet) cistern?

Do think the syphon is 'Dual Flush'. Have a look at linky. hopefully the one in your cistern is de-mountable.

Thank you. Looking at those prices, I'm happy to just replace the current one and start again, for £10-20. Is that a DIY job, though? Or recommended to get a professional in?

 

[Jackrae]

Due to either manufacturing defect or poor design, some toilet pans are just cr4p at getting rid of their content. 'Heavies' tend to flush out OK but 'floaters' or paper with entrained air can be a problem, they simply spinning round in a vortex of water. I have one that does just what you say and I've concluded that it's due to how the water is distributed into the bowl by the rim.

 

[MarcMCFC1986]

Due to either manufacturing defect or poor design, some toilet pans are just cr4p at getting rid of their content. 'Heavies' tend to flush out OK but 'floaters' or paper with entrained air can be a problem, they simply spinning round in a vortex of water. I have one that does just what you say and I've concluded that it's due to how the water is distributed into the bowl by the rim.

I did wonder whether it was just the toilet itself, and there is nothing we can do about it except replace it completely! I'll do what I can to resolve the problem, but might end up just replacing the whole thing, if need be.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Looking at the logo on the top of the Siphon, cant recall now if that's an Armitage Shanks, either way, doubtful anything is wrong with the WC, (and a lot of the newer types have a woeful flush performance compared with their predecessors), so I'd just change the siphon and see how you get on. Lok at the Dudley 'Turbo' type, (check height of current siphon and get one the same), the Turbo allows the siphon to be split for maintenance in future without having to dismantle the whole lot. (See below!)

To replace the existing, you will need to isolate the water supply, then carefully disconnect the supply to ballvalve connection, (Ballvalve is plastic so extreme care needed not to strip the tread when undoing/doing it back up!), and the overflow connection underneath. Doesn't look like the cistern is screwed to the wall, so undo the 2 bolts underneath the back of the pan, (if they're corroded, cut them off and replace), cistern should lift off pan then. Empty residual water. Remove doughnut washer, then remove siphon.

Clean up mating faces, replace siphon and doughnut washer. Resit cistern on top of pan, locating connecting bolts through pan, fit, and tighten nuts to secure cistern to pan, (no so tight as to break anything though!) Reconnect water and overflow, restore supply, test and check for leaks.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Looking at the logo on the top of the Siphon, cant recall now if that's an Armitage Shanks

Looks like the one @wgt52 linked to, a Viva Syphon? Hard to tell from photo if splittable though.