Total DIY Rewire - Part 2

[PreferNotToDieOrBurn]

Original thread (hijacked) here:
//www.diynot.com/diy/threads/my-complete-diy-rewire.424734/page-20

Please can we stay on topic this time.

A challenge: If you see anything I've done which isn't to regs or isn't safe, please let me know.

My questions: They may seem stupid to you, but I'm not concerned about looking stupid. I'd rather ask a stupid question than assume I'm awesome and thereby make a stupid mistake.

Advice:
1. I've stated many times I have to do this, I don't have a choice, and advising me not to is daft. Don't waste your time.
2. I've taken some advice, using grommets for example. I'm also cutting more grey insulation off - so to say I'm not taking advice is flat out wrong.
3. Other advice which isn't directly related to safety (ie. using oval conduit) may not be taken. It just depends on what I think will be easiest/most suitable. Don't be upset if you don't convince me. (if it's a major safety concern however, then say so.)

The following posters are not welcome in this thread (adding zero value):
ban-all-sheds

Pictures so far:

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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 24 Jan 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 24 Jan 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 24 Jan 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 25 Jan 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 25 Jan 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 8 Feb 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 18 Feb 2015
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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
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[PreferNotToDieOrBurn]

In the last thread I asked about running 2.5mm cable in the same chase as 1.5mm cable terminated at a light switch. There's been some debate about whether this means the 2.5mm cable would be in a safe zone or not.

My solution to the problem is to run the 2.5mm cable in the safe zone in the corner (150mm from the corner) - and then to run a horizontal safe zone to the light switch. Does that sound like a sensible solution?

I've started patching some of the chases this weekend - so far so good.

I also did a big chase today which will house 5 x 2.5mm cables and 2 x 1.5mm cables. I'll run a socket of this chase too. It's not as neat as I'd like, but hey ho, it's only going to be covered up.

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• PreferNotToDieOrBurn
• 1 Mar 2015
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[xr4x4]

1. I've stated many times I have to do this, I don't have a choice, and advising me not to is daft. Don't waste your time.

And it's been stated many times you don't have the knowledge or experience to do this.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I don't know what was said in the previous post and what was advised.
So to endeavour in not to wasting either of our times. May I ask a few questions?
Do you know how to prove your work is being undertaken safely and will be commissioned safely.
Have you purchased or have access to, any of the IET publication?
If so which?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. I've stated many times I have to do this, I don't have a choice,

Stop lying.

 

[OwainDIYer]

your photo of the back of the dbl socket shows the wires cut very short within the sheathing which may make folding the cable back inside the pattress neatly more difficult.

I prefer to put a earth wire in between the socket and the back box.

 

[skotl]

I said you were incompetent in the other thread. I also said that you simply refuse to pay attention to any advice that is contrary to your pre-conceived ideas or plans.

I still believe both of these assertions so can I be banned from this thread too, please?

In terms if being constructive, this is the most telling statement of yours and b-a-s is absolutely correct to challenge your assertion;

1. I've stated many times I have to do this, I don't have a choice,

Stop lying.

Why can you not simply employ someone to do this work, even if they can "sub-contract" some of the legwork to you in order to save some money? If you genuinely can't afford it then stop until you can. The lives of your family, and whoever may inhabit the house after you leave, have a higher value than you are placing on them.

 

[Lectrician]

That double socket termination is horrific. Horrible. The sheath should be cut back to the grommet in the box (just within). The inner cores should then be left around 5-6" long, and neatly swept inside the back box. You should also allow an earth fly lead from the box to the socket.

You said you were cutting more sheath off, so I wonder how short the cores were before!?! I can only assume your trying to save earth sleeve, lol.

 

[Lectrician]

It's a very poor design if you have to run a group of cables in a chase down the corner of a room. Every electrician avoids these safe zones. While they comply, it's considered poor practice to use them.

 

[Lectrician]

Just looked at the other thread, and all the photos are the same. Your opening yourself up to exactly the same responses.

Why hot glue? Oval conduit would hold the cables, and would probably be cheaper than wasting glue sticks, especially the quantity you have fired in.

1.5mm? If you're that strapped for money, why not 1mm? Not only cheaper, but easier to install and terminate for a diyer.

 

[PreferNotToDieOrBurn]

That double socket termination is horrific. Horrible.

I was trying to do it too neatly - I'm leaving about 5" now.

It's a very poor design if you have to run a group of cables in a chase down the corner of a room. Every electrician avoids these safe zones. While they comply, it's considered poor practice to use them.

This design was proposed by a couple of electricians who came to quote. In a house without wall cavities and without a cavity between the ground and 1st floor, I really don't know what other option there is. This is why runs for sockets on the bottom floor come down from the loft. We've also got exposed beams to avoid etc.

1.5mm? If you're that strapped for money, why not 1mm?

An extra £10 isn't the problem - also I'm concerned about voltage drop due to the lengths of the runs. 1.5mm gets me well into the safe margin.

Why hot glue?

The chases aren't perfectly smooth inside so fitting a semi-rigid conduit means having to cut the chases deeper. The purpose of conduit also, is to allow the cables to be removed/replaced. So its a personal choice on my part not to use conduit due to ease of installation - if the cables need to be replaced then the filler gets removed. No biggy. So I'm left with needing a temporary solution to fix the cables into the chases before they are plastered in, and hot glue fits the bill perfectly. It doesn't damage cables, it adheres well to dusty walls, it's easy to use.

The lives of your family, and whoever may inhabit the house after you leave, have a higher value than you are placing on them.

So far the existing electrical installation has been responsible for one minor electrocution, and one minor electrical fire. It is the worst residential electrical installation any of the electricians who have come to quote have seen. I don't have the thousands of pounds needed for many reasons, which I don't intend to share with you, but suffice to say their not insubstantial reasons. It is for the very reason you are criticizing me that I'm doing the work as a matter of urgency. At some point in the future it would be great to get it re-done if necessary, but in the mean time my work will be one hell of a lot better than the existing mess, and most importantly it will be safe.

It's easy to judge from behind a screen.

Do you know how to prove your work is being undertaken safely and will be commissioned safely.

I'm getting a sparky to conduct the final tests and connect up with the fuse box.

Have you purchased or have access to, any of the IET publication?

Yes a bunch of them (BS7671:2011) and some other resources also.

 

[bernardgreen]

I don't have the thousands of pounds needed for many reasons

Even if you do the work as DIY on a very limited budget there is no need to do poor quality work and ignore the advice of experienced people trying to help you.

Specifically on hot glue and PVC cables. Some hot glue will affect PVC by leaching (removing) plasticising material from the PVC. This makes the PVC brittle.

The immediate damage will be limited to the surface skin of the PVC sheath and unlikely to affect the insulation on the conductors. It is also likely that the leaching will have ceased when the glue had cooled to ambient temperature. Leaching or other reaction with the glue may occur if the cable becomes warm due to current passing through it.

The safe zone in the corner of a room is known to electricians but as mentioned they seldom use it since other trades and DIY people may not be aware that there may be cables buried in the wall in the corners of rooms.

 

[PreferNotToDieOrBurn]

I don't have the thousands of pounds needed for many reasons

Even if you do the work as DIY on a very limited budget there is no need to do poor quality work and ignore the advice of experienced people trying to help you.

Not all advice works for me as a DIY'er - when I do plastering for example I finish off with a damp cloth rather than getting a polished finish with a float. A professional plasterer would laugh at me, but I do what works to get a reasonable result. I'm not ignoring advice, I'm sometimes dismissing it after some consideration. I'm not doing poor quality work, I'm doing the best work given the context and my abilities.

It is also likely that the leaching will have ceased when the glue had cooled to ambient temperature. Leaching or other reaction with the glue may occur if the cable becomes warm due to current passing through it.

I'm sorry but if the cable becomes warm then I've got bigger problems. No electrical cable should ever become warm. If its a short term concern (leeching while the hot glue is still hot) then I've tested it and it doesn't seem to affect the cable at all. I took the comments regarding hot glue on board, did a bunch of research, and couldn't find any reason for concern. Hot Glue is also used in all sorts of electronics.

The safe zone in the corner of a room is known to electricians but as mentioned they seldom use it since other trades and DIY people may not be aware that there may be cables buried in the wall in the corners of rooms.

Perhaps in that case you have a suggestion? The context is a property with only one cavity, the loft (no floor or wall cavities). The CU is on the bottom floor. The only sensible way to wire 2/3rds of the downstairs is by running cables down from the loft.
How do you suggest getting the cables (5 x 2.5mm, 2 x 1.5mm) from the CU, into the loft?

The remaining 1/3rd of the house does have a floor cavity which makes it a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[RF Lighting]

Cables are designed to run at upto 70 degrees. This is normal.

I'm going to request this thread is locked to save a lot of people existing their time for you.

 

[bernardgreen]

Perhaps in that case you have a suggestion?

Take the cables up in a duct.

The context is a property with only one cavity, the loft (no floor or wall cavities).

Not dissimilar to my "context", mine also has stone/rubble walls that cannot be chased.

How do you suggest getting the cables (5 x 2.5mm, 2 x 1.5mm) from the CU, into the loft?

You could take a single cable as a sub main from the meter location to a CU in or just below the loft. This might mean 2 consumer units but if it makes for safer installation a small price to pay.