Trianco Oil Fired Boiler

[handychick]

Hi folks, (edit - sorry for the long post )

Ok heres the story...

Had the engineer out to service my boiler and also have a look at potential problem as there was a slight smell of oil and the fan was making a bit of a strange noise.

So he came out and had a look, said it needed a new pump, fan and expansion vessel. He also said that since theres water in the bottom of the tray, we wil be looking at a new boiler soon. (Nightmare)

Anyway, que sera sera..

So we discussed and he said that we should just get the pump replaced for now and see how it goes as its best to spend as little as possible on the boiler for now.

Pump replaced, fan still a bit noisy all working .....

Next, over the following week the fan starts making a worse and worse noise until I switched it off yesterdayday.. switched it back on today as I wanted to have a shower as I'd just got in from the gym and it just sat there and didnt make a sound, just a little click....

Called the eng out and they cant get out till tues which is understandable as its a busy time.

I guessed that the bearings on the fan/motor had finally seized and thought I wonder if I can at least get it working through the weekend, maybe take the fan apart and grease the bearings and the spindle.

So I stripped it down to the point where I open the fan cover plate, spin the fan and it seemed a bit stuck at first but when I moved it by hand it seemed to be ok. Put it all back together and switched it on and hey presto it sounded like it was working. Fan spinning etc etc..

But now, what it does is just sits there with the fan spinning in that state before the boiler actually fires, but it never fires, it never locks out either just hums away.

Like I say it was all working ok (if noisy) yesterday.

Any thoughts as to how I can get this thing fired up at least through the weekend.

thanks in advance,

Paula

PS Im quite handy with stuff and have fitted my own kitchen and bathroom so im not totally helpless apart from having run out of ideas
Just dont want you all thinking I dont know which end of a screwdriver to hold

 

[mikeyd]

Firstly I'm not an expert at all but this sounds a bit like what happened to my old oil fired boiler. Smelt of oil and the fan was starting to scream.

The oil pump was connected to the same motor which drives the fan and had leaked oil down the shaft into the motor bearings and caused them to wear out. (you would think oil would help the bearings but evidently not)

He replaced the pump and stripped the motor down to replace the bearings. The bearings only cost a couple of quid but I would imagine most engineers would just fit a new fan/motor.

I may be way off the mark but hope it helps.

Also a while after I had a bit of water in the bottom of the case and it just needed a new auto air vent, which again was easily changed and didn't cost much.

 

[handychick]

Thanks Mikey,

The fan/motor seems to be working just fine for now. If anything, opening it up and messing with it seems to have improved the sound of it and it sounds almost like its supposed to. Im happy to get a new one or even the bearings changed if thats whats need in the longer term but the problem just now seems to be that it wont fire up but as I say before I switched it off yesterday It seemed to be working just fine.

All I want is to make it work in some kind of way through the weekend until Tuesday and also to understand what could be causing the thing not to fire up for my own future reference

For now, like I say, all I get is the thing sounding like its ready to fire up.... but it goes on indefinitely like that and neither fires up nor trips out.
And it cold enough in scotland in the little outhouse to have all the thermostats calling for heat too

edit - PS you mention "auto air vent". Mine has a little water in the bottom of the tray too. The eng said its probably the heat exchanger or the hot water tank has popped a weld and thats curtains for the boiler but if this "auto air vent" thing could be to blame then thatd be just dandy.

 

[martineire]

Remove the pump and check the pump drive coupling and make sure its not worn first! It could be any of a few possible causes but thats what i would check first.

 

[mikeyd]

Have you got the service manual for it? As I said i'm no expert but I did get quite familiar with my old boiler (it was a Worcester bosch heatslave 12/14 Kw). Before it was replaced I got quite good at understanding the flow diagrams and electrical drawings in the manual and if Trianco manuals are anything like WB manuals it might give a clue why your boiler is just sitting waiting to fire up without locking out.

You never mentioned the which model Trianco you have. You should do as it might help the resident experts.

You also mentioned you needed an expansion vessel: We replaced our boiler because we built an extension and needed more output but just before that the expansion vessel in the old boiler lost pressure and needed replaced but instead of replacing the internal one we fitted an external vessel. This came in handy as the new boiler required an extra external one anyway.

 

[Burnerman]

Dunno which burner you have, but the noise will be coming from the coupling that connects the motor to the pump, via the fan, I should think...these things are only plastic, prone to failure and easy to get and fit. However, if you are sure that the fan is spinning, and therefore the pump, there is a solenoid coil on the pump that allows oil to flow once the burner has purged the flue for a few seconds. These fail quite frequently and are easy to replace. The Danfoss pump ones are about £20.
John

 

[handychick]

Thanks martin,

I just had the pump replaced last week. Do you think it could be that the pump drive coupling is worn such that it isnt turning the pump properly?

Wouldnt that cause a lock out due to lack of fuel?

I had a look and it seems to be fine but then Im not sure what itd look like if it wasnt fine :-/.

As a further bit of info, I do seem to hear the click after the requisite amount of time that would ordinarily start the burn but Im not sure. The thing I cant get my head around is that I'd expect it to just lock out if it failed to start. There must be a pretty narrow set of circumstances that would cause a firing failure without a lock out. Especially given that it was working when i went to bed last night.

Mikey, its a "Trianco Eurostar Combi 70/90 Eco".

Unfortunately I have only ever managed to find a fairly simplified version of a circuit diagram for this unit. Its not for the want of trying as I am an electronic engineer and have wished I could see the detailed circuit diagram on a number of occasions. I think they keep the techy manuals for these things on a restricted release, I may be wrong

Paula

 

[handychick]

Aah that makes sense John, thanks for the info...

So I presume the plasic linkage is designed to fail to protect the motor from burn out if either the fan or the pump seize??

Hmm well im guessing by the sounds of all this that there isnt going to be a workaround for this tonight..hey ho....

Seems like Im going to need some new parts to even get a workaround in place...

I might take the solenoid off and check it for continuity....

 

[Burnerman]

The new pump should have come complete with its solenoid coil, which effectively rules out that one.....
The plastic drive gears are designed to accommodate slight misalignment between the motor, fan and pump...if alls well they should be silent when running. They comprise of plastic splined rods and other splined couplings, some good and some ridiculously poor. Have a look at heating-parts.co.uk for examples in pictures.
if its a Danfoss pump it will be prefixed with BFP....(something) and the letters L or R determine the direction of rotation, viewed at the spindle.
Mind you, i don't like the idea of water appearing at the bottom of the boiler...unless its a faulty automatic air vent on the top!
John

 

[cider]

If there is water in bottom tray its new boiler time dont spend a penny on this one.
Your repair guy is pulling your pants down getting cash of you now and when you come down to find water everywhere anjd need a new one

 

[handychick]

All this sticking my head into the guts of the boiler has had 2 effects....

1. Im gonna go round to my mums for a shower and make arrangements to get an electric shower installed asap.

2. I spotted a drip coming from a thing at the top of the tank. I googled "automatic air vent" and it is that which is dripping. Yippee.

Well I think I might as well give up on my mcgyver attempts at making it work without any replacement parts for the weekend and go out to a club tonight for some free heat . Always a silver lining.

 

[Burnerman]

That sounds cool.
Me? I'll just sit in and give my electrodes a polish.
Enjoy! John
......and well done for getting stuck in. J

 

[handychick]

Incidentally....

How much do manufacturers courses for these things cost.. approx..

I figure if I can do my own servicing etc on my own boiler then the cost of the course will eventually pay for itself.... and I wont find myself chittering on Friday nights anymore

 

[handychick]

That sounds cool.
Me? I'll just sit in and give my electrodes a polish.
Enjoy! John
......and well done for getting stuck in. J

Thanks for your help

 

[Burnerman]

Incidentally....

How much do manufacturers courses for these things cost.. approx..

I figure if I can do my own servicing etc on my own boiler then the cost of the course will eventually pay for itself.... and I wont find myself chittering on Friday nights anymore

It maybe worth looking at the Oftec website for this...me, I just go my own way.
Now....Clubbin'? Shouldn't that be Sheddin'?
John the flat capper