Triton spares guarantee VS Sale of Goods Act? Am I unfair?

[Agile]

I also think that there may be a differentiation between trade and retail sales.

A retail sale is for example a complete shower to the end user.

I suspect a trade sale of a spare part may NOT be legally in the same category as a retail sale of a complete unit. They may well be able to impose their T&C on a trade sale.

But I am fully supportive of the OP trying to obtain a replacement of the failed part.

Triton sell very poor quality products and have a dreadful customer service as evidenced by that reply above.

 

[big-all]

there is also the unfair terms and conditions
where something is unreasonable so unenforceable
but as you say it may be different ???

 

[Agile]

A quick scan indicates that there can be a legal difference between the situation where goods of a type ordinarily supplied to consumers are purchased by a consumer.

Goods supplied to a trader can be treated differently.

Most of the internet searches are related to sales of cars to motor traders. They don't get the same warrantee ( but a lower trade price! )

In this case the spare parts for a shower are not usually bought by consumers for their use but by appliance repairers and so are probably exempt from legislation designed to protect consumers!




The relevant legislation is s.12(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act: a person deals as a consumer if

a) he neither makes the contract in the course of a business nor holds himself out as doing so; and
b) the other party does make the contract in the course of a business; and
c) the goods which are the subject matter of the contract are of a type ordinarily supplied for private use or consumption.

Obviously, all of the above applies only to contracts between traders and consumers; contracts between traders (e.g., a franchise dealer selling a p/x away from the forecourt, or a private sale) will mostly escape the legislation unscathed.

 

[FiremanT]

I also think that there may be a differentiation between trade and retail sales.

A retail sale is for example a complete shower to the end user.

I suspect a trade sale of a spare part may NOT be legally in the same category as a retail sale of a complete unit. They may well be able to impose their T&C on a trade sale.

This is basic stuff, Tony. ANY retail sale is covered by he consumer regulation, be they parts or complete appliances. NO sale to any trader is covered by the regulations.

Which is why, with some products, I would tell the client to buy them, and I fit it. That way, they are covered by the consumer regs by the retailer, not the installer (apart from his own work of course

 

[Agile]

The red part "c" of the legislation which I posted above seems to make it clear ( to me anyway ) that what is being bought needs to be what is customarily bought by consumers to be within the legislation.

I would suggest anyone buying spare parts normally fitted by a business takes great care if attempting actual court action.

The law relies on the wording on the statutes and not on the opinion of Fireman T !

Of course it can still be used an an argument with Triton who I think are supplying substandard quality products and components.

Tony

 

[GavThePlumber]

I also think that there may be a differentiation between trade and retail sales.

Stop being such a petulant child Agile, you do this on every forum when you are clearly shown to be completely incorrect, you try and force the issue which makes you look moronic, it is the sort of behavior a spoilt 10 year old displays.

You are now trying to twist this to the nth degree to suit your agenda by suggesting that this can be in any way be a trade to trade sale, to exempt it from the SoGA. Unless you are not reading what you copy and paste, you seem to have already established that it is based on completely different set of regulations, not applicable in this case.

You have googled what you want to believe and copied that here to reassure yourself, even though it does not (in any way) apply

Only thing missing here is your lapdog, to boost your enthusiasm, bolster your morale. and stick his tongue in your ass.

but as you say it may be different ???

No, i was wrong, here he is right on cue.

 

[Ric2013]

Good news.

Following my post on this forum, I also contacted CAB who pretty much confirmed what we have mostly been saying, ie that Triton should not be using a 90 warranty to evade its responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act (but that Triton might require me to prove the item was defective).

I decided to quote the CAB back to Triton:

I have been in contact with Citizens Advice and been informed that:

Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (As Amended) all goods supplied by a trader to a consumer must be of a ‘satisfactory quality’ – the goods should be free from faults, last a reasonable time, be fit for the purpose they were made for, and should not be unsafe. If the goods do not meet these requirements, then [the consumer] may have a short time in which to return the goods to the trader and ask for a refund. After this [his or her] rights will be to claim a repair or a like-for-like replacement; or if neither of these are possible, an appropriate level of refund (this may take into account usage).

Furthermore, CAB advised me that any warranty given can only be _in addition_ to my statutory rights, and that I do not have to claim on the manufacturer's warranty, I can just claim my statutory rights from the trader instead.
Let me make it clear then that I am NOT writing to you as the manufacturer, but as the trader who supplied the previously mentioned goods to the consumer (myself). I cannot find anyone but you who thinks 7 months a reasonable lifespan for a shower element in normal domestic use, and I would therefore request that this matter be referred to your superior for further attention.

This got a reply from the spares manager (again slightly reworded, let's go along with this confidentiality requirement, as I find it quite amusing):

Dear Mr Grillo

I write with regard to your email dated 31 October 2013 sent at XX.XX received in our office.

Parts do have a 90 day guarantee, as previously stated. However, this does not affect your statutory rights,

If you believe the part was defective at manufacture, then you must get it back to us for inspection , In this process, we will try to find out the cause of the fault. Sadly we, will be unable to promise anything until the the goods have
been inspected and if there is nothing wrong we will contact you to ask you to collect the goods. The only other alternative we can offer is an engineer to come to your property, although a call out charge of £68.00 would be applicable the part will be covered by any kind of guarantee.

If you would like to send the part to us for further inspection, please telephone our office on 0844 980 XXXX to obtain a returns number, Please note Triton will not accept a return without an authorisation number and the returns process could take up to 28 days.

This offer I accepted and I even managed to get a returns number by email. I emailed photos of the part as installed, so they could see it was installed correctly, and posted the faulty heating can off on Monday. I sent it Recorded, and it arrived on Wednesday. This morning, I had a delivery - one new shower heater can.

I can only assume that they did a quick test on the can, realised it was not working and that I had not mis-diagnosed the fault, and sent out a new one. Not sure whether to sell it or frame it .

Incidentally, I had an email from a Trading Standards officer. Apparently words were had, with no less than the General Manager of Triton, "concerning Triton Showers and their reliance on their 3 month warranty to refute a claim under the Sale of Goods Act" after CAB showed Trading Standards my initial email, so it seems the sale was covered by Sale of Goods Act after all.

Bye for now,

Ric

 

[Ric2013]

Thanks to all those who commented. It was nice to be able to say with conviction that I couldn't find anyone who thought 7 months a reasonable lifespan!

 

[Agile]

Well done!

Unfortunately Triton, apart from having some of the worst products on the market, also have appalling customer service in relation to complaints.

It is so obvious their part failed in your case because it was either faultily made or of such poor quality that it was totally unsuitable for the purpose.

Any firm that tries to limit their spare parts warrantee to just 90 days much have a very poor view of the reliability of their products.

You are very lucky having such a helpful Trading Standards in your area.

Unfortunately, here you cannot even speak to anyone at TS. They say they only investigate serious multiple offences and so will not bother with small matters such as the supermarkets having the wrong ( higher ) price on their till.

Tony

 

[Ric2013]

This was TS Warwickshire getting involved. The lady who wrote to me was apparently the Home Authority Officer for this company. Not sure what that means, but sounds like I was lucky!

Prices on tills and TS? Yep, been there! Sadly in the UK, the law lets them wiggle round it. In Italy, the checkout is legally obliged to sell at the advertised price, but then their Finaza is really very ineffective too... (anyway, less said the better, else I'm highjacking my own thread)

 

[Agile]

In that case it does not surprise me at all.

Even Warwickshire District Council are fairly helpful!

But the town has become seriously clogged with traffic and currently with sewer works.

I used to leave the office close to the M40 and get to my dentist by Warwick Castle easily within 10 minutes. Now I would need to allow 25 minutes. Often extra because a parking space in no longer guaranteed!

Tony

 

[mfarrow]

Often extra because a parking space in no longer guaranteed!

I used to work in Swan Street and my boss always parked in the loading bays all day, 5 days a week because the risk was so small and the total of fines was less than any of the car parks!

 

[Agile]

Warwick/LS only used to have two parking wardens who were nice older fellows and spent most of the day on Bedford Street moving people on from the single yellows.

About a year ago there was an article in the local paper saying they were going to recruit 28 if I remember it correctly. That would obviously have been far more than could be justified. But I gather they have a lot more now than before!

Does it help anything? No of course not. Just lowers the tone of what was an old fashioned friendly town!