Troubleshoot garden electrics
- Thread starter Milleniumaire
- Start date
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No good putting the details on a different website where people have to log in/register to see them.
If you want advice/possible causes, then post the details on here. Someone may be able to point you to look for certain characteristics that may indicate the potential problem.
If you want advice/possible causes, then post the details on here. Someone may be able to point you to look for certain characteristics that may indicate the potential problem.
I'm happy to supply details here, but suspect getting to the bottom of the issue is likely to be beyond my knowledge and capability as I've already tried everything I was able to and I think it now needs a qualified electrician with the necessary tools to properly troubleshoot.
Back in 2017 as part of a garden makeover we had some garden lights and a water feature pump installed. The garden circuit is on its own MCB in the consumer unit and is protected by RCD. Two switches in the house control the garden lights and garden water feature pump so they can be operated independently of each other.
A couple of years ago the RCD started tripping when both the garden lights AND garden water feature pump were on at the same time, however each works fine on its own i.e. switch the pump on and it will be fine all day, or switch the lights on in the evening (without the pump also being switched on) and the lights will be okay. Sometimes, both can be switched on and it takes some time before the RCD is tripped, sometimes it happens instantly! As the RCD also protects other circuits in the house, including the modem/router, it's a real pain when it trips! If only RCBO's had been available when the CU was upgraded in 2014!!!
In an attempt to troubleshoot the issue, a number of garden lights have been isolated completely. For the remaining lights underground connectors have been replaced with above ground IP66 rated junction boxes and the water feature pump has just been replaced with a brand new pump.
There is a "wiring box" in the garden near to the house. Two SWA cables run from the house to this wiring box, then 4 SWA cables run around the garden; 1 to the water feature pump and 3 to various light fittings. Each run of SWA to the light fittings has no more than 2 "spike" type lights fitted each with a 5W GUI10 bulb. An additional outdoor cable runs from the wiring box to 6 LED wall lights. The water feature pump uses 16W maximum.
So, in total there are 12 LED garden lights plus the water feature pump.
Any thoughts on what could be causing the RCD trip would be very helpful.
Back in 2017 as part of a garden makeover we had some garden lights and a water feature pump installed. The garden circuit is on its own MCB in the consumer unit and is protected by RCD. Two switches in the house control the garden lights and garden water feature pump so they can be operated independently of each other.
A couple of years ago the RCD started tripping when both the garden lights AND garden water feature pump were on at the same time, however each works fine on its own i.e. switch the pump on and it will be fine all day, or switch the lights on in the evening (without the pump also being switched on) and the lights will be okay. Sometimes, both can be switched on and it takes some time before the RCD is tripped, sometimes it happens instantly! As the RCD also protects other circuits in the house, including the modem/router, it's a real pain when it trips! If only RCBO's had been available when the CU was upgraded in 2014!!!
In an attempt to troubleshoot the issue, a number of garden lights have been isolated completely. For the remaining lights underground connectors have been replaced with above ground IP66 rated junction boxes and the water feature pump has just been replaced with a brand new pump.
There is a "wiring box" in the garden near to the house. Two SWA cables run from the house to this wiring box, then 4 SWA cables run around the garden; 1 to the water feature pump and 3 to various light fittings. Each run of SWA to the light fittings has no more than 2 "spike" type lights fitted each with a 5W GUI10 bulb. An additional outdoor cable runs from the wiring box to 6 LED wall lights. The water feature pump uses 16W maximum.
So, in total there are 12 LED garden lights plus the water feature pump.
Any thoughts on what could be causing the RCD trip would be very helpful.
You can begin to narrow it down by removing the swa to one set of lights and running the other 2 sets with the pump on. If it trips, replace the one that you removed and remove the next one. Repeat the test with lights and pump running. If it trips, repeat with next set and finally with the 6 LED wall lights.
If at any time the circuit doesn't trip with one section disconnected, this indicates that the disconnected set is the faulty one. You can then dismiss having to upheave anything connected to the operating lights.
If at any time the circuit doesn't trip with one section disconnected, this indicates that the disconnected set is the faulty one. You can then dismiss having to upheave anything connected to the operating lights.
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It sounds like several items are leaking small amounts which accumulate to enough to trip the RCD.
It needs testing with the appropriate equipment.
Hi Conny, I tried all of that when the issue first started occurring, but whenever ANY of the lights were connected and turned on at the same time as the pump, it would trip. I tried every possible combination of lights with pump. I guess you might assume it is therefore the pump that is the issue, but having installed a brand new pump, it hasn't resolved itself.
I currently only have the wall lights connected up as these give the most amount of (subdued) lighting in the garden and there are no junction boxes/connectors as the cable runs from the outside wiring box and daisy chains through the wall lights.
Yes, that's where I'm at now. I need a good troubleshooting electrician with the right equipment to track down the cause.
Just to point out, that you will need to disconnect both live and neutral, for your tests.
One of the problem with a single RCD, is that leakage on different circuit, can accumulate to be enough to cause a trip - on their own they are not enough.
Yes, I ensured that I disconnected all three wires; live neutral and earth, to be 100% sure.
In the early days I was sure the issue was caused by moisture getting into the underground connection boxes, but I've now replaced 3 of those and it still occurs.
In the early days I was sure the issue was caused by moisture getting into the underground connection boxes, but I've now replaced 3 of those and it still occurs.
Yes, I agree, as well as the inconvenience of multiple circuits being switched off!
While I was jet spraying the drive a few weeks ago, the garage circuit tripped and I couldn't get the jet sprayer to work again, without tripping the RCD until my wife pointed out that she had turned on the garden water feature pump! I turned that off and the jet sprayer worked again without tripping the RCD. Both the garden wiring and garage wiring are protected by the same RCD!
It would be much better if RCBO's were being used instead of a mix of MCB's and RCD's. At least then it would 100% identify the circuit having the problem, and would also lessen the impact when it did trip.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing - My own installation is knocking on a bit, and predates RCD's being common. My garage, now garage and workshop, I added an RCD to protect that area a good few years ago, but it also feeds a hut, summerhouse and several outdoor sockets. I've been lucky so far, it has never ever tripped due to faults, only due to me messing about on the workbench.
I have another single outdoor socket, fed directly from the house, that I protected with a plug-in RCD.
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Three tools are used, the insulation tester uses DC normally at 500 volt to test for leakage, the clamp on ammeter does the same but uses the AC so also measures leakage due to induction and capacitance, and the RCD meter tests the RCD.
They all cost, and so likely cheaper not to DIY.
They all cost, and so likely cheaper not to DIY.
These are operating on 230 V AC on an MCB "protected" by a RCD - which is probably "protecting" other circuits.
It would be better if the "garden circuit" was "protected" by a RCBO.
RCBOs are now available.
You have gone to a lot of trouble and expense when you could have replaced the "problematic" 230 V AC system with an "Extra Low Voltage" system, supplied via one or two transformers/power-supplies.
A "fused" Extra Low Voltage power supply will have few problems concerning "leakage" - due to Garden Moisture.
As @EFLImpudence , it does sounds as if you have several small faults rather than one large one.
Segregating the supply to all the outside stuff would be a start- since it has its own MCB it would be relatively straightforward to install a separate 'garage' CU (via Henley blocks before the existing CU) with MCB and RCD to supply the garden only.
Have you even tried testing any of the cables or appliances with a multimeter? (Good odds no fault will show but worth a go).
After that yes you need proper insulation resistance test gear.
Or given the low current involved, follow @FrodoOne s suggestion about going ELV.
Segregating the supply to all the outside stuff would be a start- since it has its own MCB it would be relatively straightforward to install a separate 'garage' CU (via Henley blocks before the existing CU) with MCB and RCD to supply the garden only.
Have you even tried testing any of the cables or appliances with a multimeter? (Good odds no fault will show but worth a go).
After that yes you need proper insulation resistance test gear.
Or given the low current involved, follow @FrodoOne s suggestion about going ELV.
My experience of using transformers is that they end up costing more than the fittings when they need to be (regularly) replaced.
In my kitchen, I have some under counter LED's running off a transformer, which has been replaced twice (under warranty)!
I was pleased when my kitchen extension presented the opportunity to replace all the low voltage LED fittings and transformers with 240V LED fittings. I got tired of regularly having to replace transformers.
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