UFH Pipes - clip spacing

[alpcon]

Hi everyone,

I am the main contractor overseeing the renovation of quite an old large property.
This week we have the underfloor heating company, chosen and contracted by my customer, in to lay in all the UFH pipes, fit the manifolds and connect up ready to fill the system and pressurise ready for the screed.

I am a little concerned as to the care being taken over this installation as in my opinion they are not clipping the pipes down with enough clips and the spacing between clips is well over 400 to 500mm and this is especially evident on the straight runs of pipe. Correct me if I'm wrong here but surely these clips are to hold down not only the pipes but also what I call the egg crate panels the pipes are clicked into so that nothing can float when the liquid screed is laid in?

Also I'm not happy about the quality of the clips they are using. They are very soft and have only one barb on each leg. Plus they seem to be too short seeing as we have 100mm of Recticel insulation to fix into.

The screed company recommended that the clips be centred at 400mm, that the bends in the pipe be clipped well down and that 60mm multiple barbed clips to be used which all makes perfect sense to me.

I will try and post some pics.

Any comments gratefully received and thank you in advance

 

[mcmoby69]

Why don't you contact the manufacturers of the ufh heating system and speak to their tech department?
It will have more authority than a diy forum when you go back to the customer.

 

[alpcon]

hi.
Yes very good idea if I knew the make which shouldn't be too hard to find out but in my own mind I know this is wrong and slapdash.
Not looking for anyone to stick their neck out on this and I am more than capable of showing these guys the error of their ways but just need some input from you guys that do this all the time

 

[dilalio]

If the customer has appointed this firm outside of your remit, I would go to the customer with the specs given to you by the screeding contractors and raise your concerns to them. If the customer wants to overrule both you and the screeders; and void any warranties you would otherwise give, then it's up to them!

 

[alpcon]

The customer is in complete agreement with me and it is her that gave the UFH subbies the extract from the screeders spec for what they wanted to see with regards to clipping down of pipes.

All I want to know from someone on here that fits UFH is what is the correct spacing for pipe clips ? these are the push in type and not staples. I realise that manufacturers may well state different measurements but clips spaced at around 2 metres apart and no clips on the straight runs of pipes must surely be wrong ??? I'm not interested in the legalities of this, who's in charge and who isn't, I just want to know what is right in this instance.

 

[MeldrewsMate]

On the face of it, and from looking at the photos, it seems like a very adequate installation to me. The base plates will not 'float', rather the screed will securely anchor them, and the base plates will securely anchor the pipes. They are designed to do that. Supplementary clips at the pipe turns are an extra level of security. To repeat, it looks like the installer has done a good job.
Perhaps a gentle word with the UFH installer would be wise, maybe asking him/her to explain the process and purpose of pipework pre-pressurisation and leak checking...."oh, won't the pipes spring up when you pressurise it?" would do the trick.

Proper communication reduces frustration. This applies to both sides.

MM

 

[BigSnoopy01]

why not just fit some extra clips with your customers consent, not worth the argument imo, just get it done and screeded.

 

[dilalio]

From photos: job looks a good'un... very neat and tidy IMO!

 

[Agile]

I will also agree it looks fine.

It is clipped on either side of each bend and the substrate will hold the pipe in place in between.

The screed will hold the pipe down.

I hope that unlike another concurrent thread, you and the UFH contractors will use the correct procedures for the initial heating up.

Tony

 

[Roger928]

The screed company recommended that the clips be centred at 400mm

Does the screed company know that the pipes are laid unto castellated panels?

 

[alpcon]

Hi guys thanks for all the replies. I have fitted further clips and of a much better quality. Sorry to disagree but its not a good installation its the worst ive seen. The bends are too tight therefore the pipe is not pushed down between the circular knobs on the mats. They have pushed the pipe down with their feet and consequently have just squashed down the circular knobs on the mats hence the bends are sticking up in the air. They have also laid in pipes right up to the walls and I was under the impression that pipes were to be 100mm away from walls ?. If I had the time to take numerous pictures you would all see what I mean. Also caught one of them hacking the edge of the plastic mat to death with a Stanley knife literally mm away from my membrane. Attention to detail and care not evident here

 

[dilalio]

All we had was your photos... and from them, it looked pretty neat; to me!

 

[Agile]

It is up to the photographer to ensure his images portray what he wants to communicate!

 

[Dan Robinson]

If I had the time to take numerous pictures you would all see what I mean.

What do you think we have to base our opinions on?

 

[Agile]

I think he has expected the specification of Chinese crystal balls will actually be met !