UK electric qualifications?

[jackecole]

I know there are notifiable and non-notifiable jobs that competent people are allowed to do, such as replace ceiling roses, add a socket, etc.

What is the 17th edition wiring regulations course for? What does it mean/allow you to legally do?

 

[EFLImpudence]

It is a course on the wiring regulations to ensure that you know where to find the relevant regulation and (I'll be generous) understand them.

It has nothing to do with notifiable, or not, work other than you cannot register with a self-certification scheme or get a job without it.


You/anyone can do non-notifiable work if they are 'competent' which, in this sense, merely means that they are able to do the work competently.

You/anyone can do notifiable work if the Building Control judge you competent.


I would say being competent includes having the necessary testing equipment and tools - not just a screwdriver and a pair of scissors.

 

[securespark]

not just a screwdriver and a pair of scissors.

Don't knock 'em, lad - I'll 'ave tha' kno' them did me proud fo' many a year, befo' I could get me sen the reet kit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

and (I'll be generous) understand them.

I would say being competent includes having the necessary testing equipment and tools - not just a screwdriver and a pair of scissors.

And not just being able to get a little more than half the questions right in a test when you have the book with all the answers in with you.


[EDIT]Malformed quote corrected.[/EDIT]

 

[Greenie9657]

Hi all

So if the building control deem anyone as competent They would legally be allowed to replace a consumer unit, electrics in bathrooms/kitchens etc? Without any sparky quals? as long as I had a set of plies and a pair of scissors?

Not saying I'm gonna do it, just trying to understand the law and building control.

 

[ericmark]

Yes it is up to the local authority building control (LABC) inspector to ensure site safety and to do this he must be satisfied that the persons or person doing the work has the required skills.

I wired a wet room for my mother and was involved with the LABC inspector who to be frank seemed to have no idea as to what qualifications were what. He refused to allow my son to sign the installation certificate (He held a C&G 2391) but allowed me to sign because I had a degree even though in real terms the C&G 2391 was the qualification required for the work.

There is no laid down qualification and clearly as part of the common market they would need to accept qualifications from all member states.

The 17th Edition exam proves you can read there is no interpretation required and one has to note slight differences in the text with phrases like "and others" changing a definition from skilled to competent which in real terms means its more like a school comprehension exercise.

My son worked in Liverpool, Chester, and Flintshire and the LABC inspectors were very different as to what they required however they were all approachable and that is the only way you will find out what they require.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Hi all

So if the building control deem anyone as competent They would legally be allowed to replace a consumer unit, electrics in bathrooms/kitchens etc? Without any sparky quals? as long as I had a set of plies and a pair of scissors?

You don't require any qualifications to do electrical work, much the same as plumbing. But it it would be advised to have an understanding how electrics and electrical circuits work and how to design and install them correctly.
But without qualifications and adequate skill and experience, I would doubt it if you or anyone else, could consider you as competent.
I personally would only consider someone competent if not only do they have the above, but can also demonstrate skills in inspection, testing, certification, fault finding and diagnosis.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What is the 17th edition wiring regulations course for? What does it mean/allow you to legally do?

The 17th edition is British Standard (BS7671) that offers guidance on how to install and comply to the wiring regulations/requirements.
The course will give you an understanding of these requirements and where they are to be found within this document.
They don't legally allow you to do anything more than you can already do without them.
But they do offer a valuable guide and it would be ill advised to perform any electrical installation tasks, without knowledge of the requirements.

 

[jackecole]

Thanks for your replies

What is the NICEIC that you see on sides of vans? Does this mean they are qualified and have taken certain exams as well?

The same with the inspection and testing. Are there special requirements do be able to do testing?

 

[JohnW2]

I suspect that some of the responses above may be a bit confusing for the OP (and Greenie9657).

As has been said, anyone can undertake notifiable work, with or without any qualifications. However, unless the person concerned is a member of a self-certification scheme (which does require them to have qualifications), such as NICEIC etc., they can only do it (legally) by notifying the LABC, paying the LABC fees and the work being subject to 'inspection' by the LABC.

If an LABC is satisfied about the competence of a person (a judgemnet likely to be made on the basis of qualifications) they may accept certificates (and test results etc.) provided by that person, and there then may be a reduction in the fees charged (and 'inspection'undertaken). However, if the person is not a member of a self-certification scheme, there is no way of avoiding notification, and at least some LABC fees, for notifiable work.

To comply with the law, all electrical work, whether notifiable or not, has to be undertaken in compliance with Part P of the Building Regs - which essentially means that it has to be done 'safely and competently'. In theory, LABC can take action in relation to non-notifiable work which is not compliant with Part P (i.e.'unsafe') but, in practice, they will virtually never become aware of such non-compliances.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jackecole]

thanks for your replies

regarding Part P of the building regulations - it says things like no sockets in kitchens above sinks, well I have seen many! So accoring to the regs are they all illegal??!!

 

[JohnW2]

regarding Part P of the building regulations - it says things like no sockets in kitchens above sinks, well I have seen many! So accoring to the regs are they all illegal??!!

No, it doesn't. All that Part P of the building regs ('the law') says is:

Untitled

• JohnW2
• 2 Oct 2013
• 1

Everything else you see/hear/read represents guidance as to what might be regarded as satisfying Part P.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

thanks for your replies

regarding Part P of the building regulations - it says things like no sockets in kitchens above sinks, well I have seen many! So accoring to the regs are they all illegal??!!

Part P does not mention sockets above sinks.
The wiring regulations will offer guidance to where it is appropriate to install accessories, and the ingress protection that should be provided in areas of increased risk.
There are building regulation guidances, that would suggest a socket outlet should no closer than 300mm to a sink/drainer.
Common sense would hopefully give the reasoning behind this.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What is the NICEIC that you see on sides of vans?

They are one of a few regulatory bodies within the electrical industry.

Does this mean they are qualified and have taken certain exams as well?

depends on who is driving the van?

The same with the inspection and testing. Are there special requirements do be able to do testing?

There are qualification that can be gained in I&T. The only special requirement would be, in being competent in carrying out I&T and completing the relevant documents, and then understanding the results of your findings.

 

[SimonH2]

What is the NICEIC that you see on sides of vans?

They one of a few regulatory bodies within the electrical industry.

Personally I'd disagree with that description. They are a trade group - calling them a regulatory body infers rights/privileges/authority that they don't have. They do have a regulatory function in as much as they require certain qualifications for membership and (from what I've read here) police standards of work by their members - but that authority applies only to their own members and effectively the worst they can do is throw someone out of the club.

It is this latter bit that means they've been given (along with others, like ESR who also seem to like talking about themselves as something they aren't) the right to allow their members to self-notify work. But that's different to them being a regulatory body as most people would consider it.

Ie, it's not like gas work where, by law, you need to be registered with Gas Safe before you can legally work on gas systems*. There's no such limitation with electrical work - other than the dispensation allowing members of certain trade groups to avoid going through the normal process of notifying work before it starts etc.

* Well, by way of trade - but lets leave the lid on that can of worms.