Unnecessary damage caused by plumber in search of leak

[Onetap]

Well I never. I asked a question and seem to have set off a debate. No need to debate about my misfortune! Johnmelad - thank you for the support and Gas Wizzard - I'm sorry some woman took you to court for something that was clearly not your fault but this is different - don't tar us all with the same brush. At no point in my question (was just a question) did I say I ever had any intention of taking anyone to court OR did I say I expected the company to make good the damage - quite frankly, can't be bothered with the hassle. I merely asked if I should pay for a service I clearly did not recieve. And yes, he didn't have a crystal ball and he was a lovely man but the lovely man didn't do what I employed him to do nor did he do what I think is a basic test. And yes, real plumbers - public liability and everything.

He uncovered the leaking fitting but it wasn't then leaking, so he carried on looking. I don't think many plumbers would have thought of turning off the water to make it start leaking, I wouldn't have.

£240 is steep, though. Doesn't your insurance cover this?

 

[gas112]

Somehow i dont think a fitting only leaking when water initially turned on would leave a damaged ceiling, for the ceiling to be damaged and showing signs of a leak the water would need to being turned on and off daily plasterboard can take a fair bit of water without showing any signs.
Secondly why was he smashing through ceilings and wanting to continue doing so in the hall is there a reason he could not have lifted floor boards above.

As for paying we all have different attitudes of when to charge when nothing found or no fix.
if i had found this eventually back in original place i would have charged an hour and put the rest of time down to me learning something about push fit

 

[Johnmelad]

I did sign a waiver saying that they (the plumbers) were not liable for damages caused

GAME OVER!.

i wouldnt have charged that much, but i would have found the leak. (guaranteed)

Not sure what you mean by game over. No one is disputing that damage would need to be done when looking for the leak.

Repairing the damage would be the responsibility of the owner not the plumber.

What is in dispute is should he have charged the customer for his failure to find the leak given the circumstances as we know them.

You say you would have found the leak, that being the case you would have also repaired it and quite rightly charged your fee.

 

[skenk]

Next time get someone who offers a 'no-fix, no fee' service, and ask hourly rates when you call them If they say £80 after 1st hour call someone else.

To be fair that is an unusual leak but it sounds like the plumber could have done better. Poor show not to find the leak and still charge £240 if u ask me, wouldn't be using them again.

 

[Onetap]

Somehow i dont think a fitting only leaking when water initially turned on would leave a damaged ceiling, for the ceiling to be damaged and showing signs of a leak the water would need to being turned on and off daily plasterboard can take a fair bit of water without showing any signs.

The pressure in the pipe would drop when there was a draw-off; maybe that was when it leaked and sealed itself when there was no water being used. The OP hasn't said it was plasterboard, nor that it was mains water.

 

[hazetimesfive]

so you found the leak through one of his holes...

sounds like you got what you paid for.

 

[Agile]

I offer no fix-no fee but only for boiler repairs.

With leaks I explain the scenario and charge for whats reasonable to be done with the greatest expectation of finding the cause.

Tony

 

[joe-90]

The tradesman must act in a professional manner - he was clearly an idiot (like most are) don't pay - tell him to take you to court -(he won't).

 

[bolshy]

The plumber didn't find the leak. He was still within his rights to charge because he had ensured he had a waiver. However, I'm sure many plumbers on this forum wouldn't have charged in full, because the leak wasn't found. But that is up to the individual plumber.

As for "no fix, no fee", that depends on whether the plumber is allowed to complete his checks. Many customers are more than willing to take your time and advice for free, but wouldn't entertain the idea of not being paid when they put in time at work.

As has been posted, a correctly installed push fit union shouldn't be leaking at all, partly or fully pressurised. I'd be concerned about the rest of my installation if it was fitted at the same time. I'd certainly be checking there are pipe inserts fitted where required, and that the fittings can be locked.

Joe90, many of your posts are just about trolling, so most decent tradesmen who comment on these forums ignore them as such. Telling the OP not to pay a tradesman who has a signed waiver agreement is NOT good advice, and will only cost them more in the long run.

A tradesman who ensures he has a signed waiver before searching for a leak on hidden pipework is hardly an idiot.

 

[joe-90]

Don't be silly. If I take my PC to have a fault diagnosed and it comes back unfixed in a box of bits - do I pay? No.

The guy is a cowboy. He should not be paid but should be sued as he was clearly incompetent. Take him to court for damages. The waiver means nothing in court as he is a PROFESSIONAL and is deemed to be competent - which he clearly wasn't.

 

[joe-90]

If it was me that was called out I would have cut out a square of plasterboard over the joists in the vicinity of the leak. I would then have climbed my steps and shone a torch into the void. If there was no sign of water anywhere else and the was a joint in the vicinity (especially a push-fit) then I would have changed it, checked for leaks and put back the cut square of PB and refitted it. I would then have made good any gaps and charged £65.

I'm a professional - and act like one.

If the ceiling was beyond repair due to water damage I would quote for that separately.

 

[sooey]

And when you'd climbed your ladder and shone your torch through the hole you would find yourself looking in the void between two adjacent joists. If the pipework crosses the joists you would have seen a good 15 or 16 inches of it. But you knew that didn't you seeing as you're a fessional.

 

[bolshy]

In my experience, water from small leaks can travel large distances across well fitted plasterboard ceilings and if it's wicking along joists too, can cause evidence of a leak to appear 15 feet away from the source. Sometimes joists only get wet on one side. These leaks can go on for days sometimes before becoming apparent.
If this was the case joe-90, your method wouldn't have worked either.

It doesn't matter how professional you are, you have to start in the place where the leak is apparent. That may still be a long way from the leak itself.

 

[joe-90]

And when you'd climbed your ladder and shone your torch through the hole you would find yourself looking in the void between two adjacent joists. If the pipework crosses the joists you would have seen a good 15 or 16 inches of it. But you knew that didn't you seeing as you're a fessional.

It should still be apparent if the push-fit was leaking as you would dismantle it to check it had been fitted right and the O-ring wasn't damaged - and you'd change it anyway wouldn't you? Well wouldn't you? FFS - a five minute job. So Sooey - you (being a dopey plumber) would go around hitting ceilings in adjacent rooms would you?

I bet you are a labour voter.

 

[gaswizzard]

If it was me that was called out I would have cut out a square of plasterboard over the joists in the vicinity of the leak. I would then have climbed my steps and shone a torch into the void. If there was no sign of water anywhere else and the was a joint in the vicinity (especially a push-fit) then I would have changed it, checked for leaks and put back the cut square of PB and refitted it. I would then have made good any gaps and charged £65.

I'm a professional - and act like one.

If the ceiling was beyond repair due to water damage I would quote for that separately.

A 50/50 chance the pipework was going across the joists or parallel with them.

A puppet who has no clue whatsoever , give it up you fool.