UNSAFE BOILER....!!!!

[flashbang]

My poor old Mother-in-law, has just had a visit from a British Gas engineer to sort out a radiator valve problem. She has a contract with them for such work, and a yearly boiler service.
This week, the Engineer did the valve job, and then decided that there wasn't a big enough air vent in the room to support the boiler anymore...
So he put a sticker on it saying 'Unsafe do not use' and shut it down.
They want £60 for a new vent.

WTF is that all about. This has been running, regularly serviced and not had any problems for the last 21 years. But now it's unsafe!!!!! What's going on guy's. She's worried sick. Is this just cashing in on an OAP widow or what. It's disgusting.!

Your comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Flash.

P.S. Her Husband died of cancer.............. NOT carbon monoxide poisoning!

 

[Gas2Air]

Basically all Open Flued appliances have had a major revamp regarding the unsafe procedures that all CORGi engineers undertake.

Installations that were deemed Not to Current Standards a few months ago have now been updated to an At Risk situation.

The issue concerns ventilation. Any vent that is fly-screen, closable, less than 90% requirement i compartment, less than 40% to outside, wall faced terminations etc.

BG are up to date with this. They use it to sell the correct ventilation ie core vent 100cm2. They forget to add that if you refuse they can do it for free!!

 

[bobs yer uncle]

As previous post says, they are exactly correct, don't blame BG, although personally I think they could have written to their existing customers with OF Boilers and warned them.
Most of these vent upgrades are being done FOC and on the spot. If they are a little more complicated then the £60 job is offered. Nothing to stop you from buying the vents correcting this (not something a dog (corgi) need do)
The engineer should have left you the details of what needs doing.

Basically the boiler has a ventilation need. If the boiler is in a compartment then the need is at High and Low level and the vents must be at least 90% of the requirement. If the boiler is not in a compartment then the vent must be at least 40% of the requirement (till 2008 when it will need to be also 90% of the requirement) A boiler in a compartment must also have the room vent communicating with the outside. There is more to correct ventilation than this.... but this is the basics.

Often it is both the size and the configuration of the vents that is wrong. Sorting out the configuration of the vents is often disruptive and complicated.

Check the ventilation need in the manufacturers installation instructions.

If you want to blame someone, blame Tony, the HSE and CORGI

Bob

 

[ollski]

don't blame BG, although personally I think they could have written to their existing customers with OF Boilers and warned them.
Bob

Come on Bob, is that what you've done?....£60 is a bargain, it is supposed to be 142!

 

[weareleeds]

Why does she have it serviced, obviously to keep herself safe so if CORGI learn from a c.o. related incident & put procedures in place to prevent any more occurances why question it

 

[Ontario Plumber]

My poor old Mother-in-law, has just had a visit from a British Gas engineer to sort out a radiator valve problem. She has a contract with them for such work, and a yearly boiler service.
This week, the Engineer did the valve job, and then decided that there wasn't a big enough air vent in the room to support the boiler anymore...
So he put a sticker on it saying 'Unsafe do not use' and shut it down.
They want £60 for a new vent.

WTF is that all about. This has been running, regularly serviced and not had any problems for the last 21 years. But now it's unsafe!!!!! What's going on guy's. She's worried sick. Is this just cashing in on an OAP widow or what. It's disgusting.!

Your comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Flash.

P.S. Her Husband died of cancer.............. NOT carbon monoxide poisoning!

Hi flashbang

Had similar experiance couple of years ago with a cooker. BG (Bodger) was out to service gas fire(s) annual service contract. Walking through kitchen he smelt gas. It was gas flexible hose leaking.

He decided to investigate. Moved the cooker forward located the leak. Went back to his van for a roll of labelling tape. Stuck tape on the pipe "unsafe to use". Shut the main gas valve and left. This was at 5.00pm.

Power of bee was furious. No heating, no hot water, no cooking. She went on phone to BG. "Sorry can't do anything while morning".

She then remembered one of her workmate's husband was a plumber. She rang him. He came out in 30 minutes. He had new flexi pipe in his van. Fitted it in less than 5 minutes. Job was a good one. Cost £20. All systems working again. BG could have easily ripped us off with a hefty bill. What the hell is going on I was saying!

 

[andsam]

Are you from ontario ? ontario plumber.

 

[ollski]

Hi flashbang

Had similar experiance couple of years ago with a cooker. BG (Bodger) was out to service gas fire(s) annual service contract. Walking through kitchen he smelt gas. It was gas flexible hose leaking.

He decided to investigate. Moved the cooker forward located the leak. Went back to his van for a roll of labelling tape. Stuck tape on the pipe "unsafe to use". Shut the main gas valve and left. This was at 5.00pm.

Power of bee was furious. No heating, no hot water, no cooking. She went on phone to BG. "Sorry can't do anything while morning".

She then remembered one of her workmate's husband was a plumber. She rang him. He came out in 30 minutes. He had new flexi pipe in his van. Fitted it in less than 5 minutes. Job was a good one. Cost £20. All systems working again. BG could have easily ripped us off with a hefty bill. What the hell is going on I was saying!

You've lost me...the moral of this tale is what?
a)don't let bg engineer in your house as he may make safe a dangerous gas leak

b)Bg are rubbish because they can't obtain parts after 5 pm until the next morning

c)Bg are rubbish because it's possible they may have charged us more than a friend of ours who did us a favour.

God is this wind up season again???

 

[pierrot]

Hi flashbang

Had similar experiance couple of years ago with a cooker. BG (Bodger) was out to service gas fire(s) annual service contract. Walking through kitchen he smelt gas. It was gas flexible hose leaking.

He decided to investigate. Moved the cooker forward located the leak. Went back to his van for a roll of labelling tape. Stuck tape on the pipe "unsafe to use". Shut the main gas valve and left. This was at 5.00pm.

Power of bee was furious. No heating, no hot water, no cooking. She went on phone to BG. "Sorry can't do anything while morning".

She then remembered one of her workmate's husband was a plumber. She rang him. He came out in 30 minutes. He had new flexi pipe in his van. Fitted it in less than 5 minutes. Job was a good one. Cost £20. All systems working again. BG could have easily ripped us off with a hefty bill. What the hell is going on I was saying!

You've lost me...the moral of this tale is what?
a)don't let bg engineer in your house as he may make safe a dangerous gas leak

b)Bg are rubbish because they can't obtain parts after 5 pm until the next morning

c)Bg are rubbish because it's possible they may have charged us more than a friend of ours who did us a favour.

God is this wind up season again???

No more like poor customer service from a company thats always banging on about how they look after there customers, the engineer should IMO haver isolated and capped cooker point thereby leaving heating and hot water working.

 

[scatmanjohn]

Hi flashbang

Had similar experiance couple of years ago with a cooker. BG (Bodger) was out to service gas fire(s) annual service contract. Walking through kitchen he smelt gas. It was gas flexible hose leaking.

He decided to investigate. Moved the cooker forward located the leak. Went back to his van for a roll of labelling tape. Stuck tape on the pipe "unsafe to use". Shut the main gas valve and left. This was at 5.00pm.

Power of bee was furious. No heating, no hot water, no cooking. She went on phone to BG. "Sorry can't do anything while morning".

She then remembered one of her workmate's husband was a plumber. She rang him. He came out in 30 minutes. He had new flexi pipe in his van. Fitted it in less than 5 minutes. Job was a good one. Cost £20. All systems working again. BG could have easily ripped us off with a hefty bill. What the hell is going on I was saying!

You've lost me...the moral of this tale is what?
a)don't let bg engineer in your house as he may make safe a dangerous gas leak

b)Bg are rubbish because they can't obtain parts after 5 pm until the next morning

c)Bg are rubbish because it's possible they may have charged us more than a friend of ours who did us a favour.

God is this wind up season again???

Ollski....Would it not have been just as easy to cap the pipework to the cooker and left the customer with heating and hot water overnight.

I would have done that and i bet you would have done as well.

The problem is BG have "some" engineers who don't give a toss about the customers.
And just to even it up i know quite a few BG engineers who really know their stuff

 

[ollski]

Should have called transco in all honesty and got them to turn off the meter, the Bg guy did all he should have under the duty of care. Sure if he had the correct stuff to hand he could of capped the cooker pipework but perhaps he didn't have one...we don't know, perhaps he was coming back to fix it for free first job next morning, perhaps he had just prevented you from blowing your house up and you moaned at him that you were going to have to get a take away. I will treat any customer as well as they treat me and if that means bending over backwards I will do it, but treat me like a muppet and you will get no favours from me.

 

[lor]

YOU UNGRATEFUL S@@@
the engineer should have left your gas leak and thrown a lighted match into your house when leaving. custmers like you ruin the job

 

[flashbang]

Thanks for the interesting feedback. I didn't mean to spark a row..!
What I am angry about, is the fact that in no way is this situation even slightly dangerous. We all know it. Presumably, someone somewhere has either died, or become ill from carbon monoxide with a similar sized vent to the one fitted in my Mum-in law's house, and as a result every body must have a new vent fitted.
There are many other circumstances that have not been taken into consideration. Such as surrounding buildings, proximity to a wall etc, etc.
If this vent has been adequate for the last 20 years, It is NOT dangerous now.!

Why does she have it serviced, obviously to keep herself safe so if CORGI learn from a c.o. related incident & put procedures in place to prevent any more occurances why question it

What has really bugged me, weareleeds, is the fact that this procedure has reduced the chances of my M-in-L dying or becoming seriously ill from carbon monoxide to 0% from about 0.0001%. And increased her chances of dying to 100% from hypothermia. And this seems to be OK.!! In Britain we going through a cold snap at the moment. She hasn't got a chance of survival. OAP's die every year from the cold here and BG, Tony, HSE or CORGI, SHOULDN'T be the cause!!

I still maintain the whole business is disgraceful.!

Flash.

 

[ollski]

Flashbang your anger should be directed at the original installer who has put you mother in laws life at risk for the last 20 years by poorly installing the boiler. I would imagine that if the Bg guy left it and she did die of co poisoning that you would be less than happy to accept responsibility because you thought it was ok. It was not one incident which caused the regs to be tightened but the frightening number of close shaves that were coming to light in cases exactly like yours.

 

[chrishutt]

I still maintain the whole business is disgraceful.!

I'm inclined to agree, mainly because the situation arises due to a long-standing and fairly obvious error in the guidance document and the apparent failure of any responsible person to spot this for many years.

Standards for ventilation are based on a worst case scenario. Only a very low level of adventitious ventilation (through minor cracks in openings and building structure) is assumed, to cover well draft-proofed modern construction. Consequently high levels of purpose provided ventilation are specified. In most cases this will be excessive and in some situations grossly so.

Gas installers/fitters/engineers are required to inspect existing installations and, if sub-standard, to classify them as either not to current standards (NTCS), at risk (AR) or immediately dangerous (ID). Guidance on making this classification is given in a booklet which is updated and expanded from time to time, but remains far from comprehensive.

The reference to ventilation in the guidance booklet was previously ambiguous and seemed to indicate that even seriously deficient ventilation should only be classified as NTCS rather than AR. This was inconsistent with other aspects of the guidance and clearly an error, yet for many years this guidance was followed unthinkingly by many.

The practical upshot of this was that, whereas NTCS situations do not require remedial action to be taken, AR situations do. However it may be that your fitter acted illegally in shutting off the appliance without the agreement of the householder (as you describe it). Worth looking into and complaining if necessary.

This sort of situation is being repeated all over the country and ought to be a national scandal.

It was not one incident which caused the regs to be tightened

But the regulations haven't been changed! Only an error in the guidance booklet corrected. He could also reasonably blame BG for failing to identify the deficiency in the ventilation over all the years that they have been servicing it.