Unvented investigating

A tight wad landlord who employed a spark (that happened to be unqualified to work on unvented cylinders) who installed the cylinder without any regard to future maintenance ie. being able to replace components.
There are no end of cylinder options that would fit in that cupboard providing dull access but you chose the cheapest cylinder on the market. What a couple of planks. In England it's a legal requirement that unvented cylinders are notified to building control on installation...what's the position up there?
 
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The Ariston cylinder was supplied by a gas safe plumber I used to use who I knew quite well (now lives and works in NZ). He had installed a full gas CH system for me just prior. It wasn’t bought on price. If it were a known poor choice I’d have bought a better one. As a landlord you want reliability. I don't recall it being particularly cheap at circa £700 (if I remember correctly). Yes, the cylinder ended up a bit awkward to fit because of the valve on the side being where it is but once you’re about to fit it, he did his best with it.

The electrician didn't install the cylinder? I use a well regarded VAT registered electricians firm with two partners/two employees. Like most electricians he wires electrics to/from heating systems along with other major household installs. Done a LOT of work for me. Seriously, how many electricians like him/those who work for him are G3 qualified? You’re trying to say he shouldn’t be checking a thermostat on a cylinder? Get real. In retrospect I perhaps should’ve got a plumbers firm out to check it but seeing an element wasn't heating last week he seemed a perfectly fair person to come and check it out.

Plumbers and G3. I was unaware that there was such a thing as the G3. Hindsight is a great thing but not being a plumber and cylinders not being gas, I did not know about G3. As a member of the public/customer who sought various quotes (for three different cylinder installs) I can unfortunately confirm that most didn't have G3 but were perfectly willing to do the work. This is a bad reflection on our legislation I know. It however reflects my unhappiness at a lot of plumbers work over the last 10-15 years. Luckily I have turned my hand to plumbing really very well. I've relocated toilets, plumbed bathrooms/kitchens, installed a concealed shower valve, installed a concealed cistern and pan, fixed taps/toilets/leaks etc etc. I trust my own work and 90% of the time I fix things in flats myself. I'm glad I can. It does save money but it can get things fixed quickly and easily.

You probably don't know what it's like being a landlord but with this issue I've already had two visit's to the property, needing to liaise with the tenant etc. My aim is to avoid more appointments and just get it fixed. It is a business so expenditure is a consideration but there are practical factors for me to consider as well.

Yes, I ought not to work on this unvented cylinder but I speak from experience when unfortunately I say I don't have the faith in others I ought to have.

I believe you are right it's only in England and Wales that the authorities need notified.
 
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"Ariston Aquabravo ITD unvented. 5 yrs old. The lower element wasn’t heating so had the spark who installed it all investigate today."

I conclude the spark installed it.
True many in the trade are completely useless.

Read the manuals and do the "course", it's half a day and a paperwork exercise....and that's taking it slowly.
 
the spark who installed it

I obviously meant installed the electrical side but yes my bad.

Aye, over the years plumbers leaving stuff leaking and badly installed has driven me nuts. Of course it's even harder for me these days to to watch bad stuff happening when I know right/wrong ways.

I've a great one here for you all. Another gas safe guy who installed a different cylinder came back to try and fix a leak onto an expansion vessel. Do you know what he tried using instead of ptfe tape? Gaffer tape. Needless to say it didn't work.

I do appreciate the help given from this form as it has helped me learn and tackle jobs successfully. Recently got to grips with pipe bending and soldering which is also helpful.
 
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G3 has nothing whatsoever to do with Gas safe, you can be a registered G3 installer and never been gas safe registered
 
An unvented cylinder can be heated by Oil, Gas , Electric, the G3 qualification is a water regulation, not a gas one, and yes your elictrician to change a thermostat or element on an unvented should be G3 qualified, dont shoot the messenger it is just how it is, I used to look after a complete new build development of flats in Edinburgh , all with Ariston Unvented and the installs were so bad that the building insurers put a clause in that they would not insure the flats without a G3 inspection being completed and certified and sent to them every year, I seen some horror stories in that development by people thinking that all elements are the same and all thermostats are the same, and like your good self had no clue what an anode is or does and when one needs replacing
 
Gotcha.

I have endeavoured to get the cylinders we have checked annually too.

Btw I do know what sacrificial anodes are for. As I mentioned above I do understand the system pretty well. I know the importance of safety regarding them too.
 
Always good to get them checked, unfortunately when they are installed in flats, when there is a failure it is the downstairs flat that discovers it and it is the tenents insurance that has to pay
 
Always good to get them checked, unfortunately when they are installed in flats, when there is a failure it is the downstairs flat that discovers it and it is the tenents insurance that has to pay

What sort of failures are you referring to, bursts of some sort? That doesn't sound pleasant. I'd have thought/hoped a failure might mean blow off blowing off!

..So probably the passer by outside getting scalded not the person in the flat underneath!

Interested to know what sort of failure you're referring to. Tenants rarely take out insurance. More likely a rented property will just have buildings cover arranged by the landlord.
 
Outlet pipework from tundish discharge , wrong material, never tested, Expansion depleted and cylinder discharging but underfloor joints leaking and coming through downstairs ceiling, immersions replaced by wrong elements, anodes never checked the list goes on
 
Thanks. Well 3 different cylinder installs I have all within about a year thankfully (touch wood..) so far this is the first failure.

Possibly no bad thing I was a hovering lurker during installations! There was stuff I avoided because I spoke up like daft placement of an expansion vessel and inadequate wall fixings for pipework/vessels. I made sure things like drains to drain the system were sound too. Yeh they’ll have loved me!
 
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To update more than anything. I want to get a check done on the system again soon anyway so my plan is to get a G3 plumber to further work on and fill/check the system.

Advice above seemed to be just needing a ‘stat so I got one. You’ll see above accessing was a concern. I wanted to see if it was going to be possible to replace the ‘stat by removing the whole element (the thinking being more ability to angle the element and pull it out once it was freed whereas the ‘stat pretty much has to be withdrawn horizontally).

I therefore drained the cylinder to see if the whole element would come out (it won’t). I also felt seeing the element/s was sensible before just getting the stat only fitted. See picture.

The cylinder is less than 4.5 years old. I can’t believe the condition of the element. I have had the system “serviced”/checked twice. I was happy enough with the visits but I recognise (especially now) they didn’t involve changing/inspecting the anodes or elements.

Thing is, realistically I find it hard to believe that when people ask for a yearly UV visit/check (as I have) that an engineer is going to drain the cylinder and arrive with two new anode’s. I guess they should be checking anodes, but when that involves pulling the whole immersion out and separating a grotty anode, does this really happen very often..?

I accept this might have avoided with nice new anodes yearly but I can’t imagine that happening very often. It has not even (for some bizarre reason) been all that easy to get these parts. Lots of big outfits don’t have them and have told me they can’t get them.

I’ve sent Ariston the picture and I think they’ve taken the condition of this element fairly seriously but I’m not holding my breath on a positive response. In Edinburgh our water isn’t known to cause things like this. I honestly expected the element/s and anodes to look in ok nick mainly because of our water up here supposedly being really good.

Anyway, while some will say I shouldn’t have emptied the cylinder I’m glad I did so as have inspected the parts myself otherwise I may have just had a new thermostat fitted. I will now of course need to get two complete elements and see what can be done to move the cylinder round for better access. Crazy design of the cylinder having the safety valve way around from the immersions (this stopped more ideal positioning)

I am interested in opinions on the condition of the element and my thoughts on realistically how often people have the elements and anode inspected (anode and element all one but anode of course available separately). I suspect loads of people don't even know UV systems are meant to be checked regularly. Certainly not impressed by this when some old vented type cylinders seem to go on for decades problem free.
 
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Can you post a pic of the top of that cylinder please, I dont get what you are saying about the element and anode being combined , I have never seen that
 
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