Using a "select" electrician and getting a certifi

[robbieee]

Hi,

I need to pay a select qualified electrician to install a smoke alarm for an up and coming building warrant (Scotland). A few electrician have commented the certificate costs £150 as they need to check the wiring in ALL of the house.

Surely they would just be signing off the circuit they have installed and worked on?

What kind of things could they fail the rest of the electrics on??

 

[robbieee]

Anyone?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Surely they would just be signing off the circuit they have installed and worked on?

Indeed, but there would be other things to consider, such as the condition of the incoming service, condition of the distribution board and earthing arrangement plus mains earth bonding. Not always as simple as putting a few smokes up and pulling in and terminating cables.

What kind of things could they fail the rest of the electrics on??

There many things:
The ones mentioned above.
Plus
Condition of enclosures
Continuity of circuit protective conductor
Polarity
Insulation resistance
Zs
Ze
PFC
Methods of installation
Current carry capacity of cable
Suitable protective devices
RCD tripping times
Just for starters.
For a new circuit I would have to do inspection and testing and complete this form
http://www.elecsa.co.uk/Documents/P...1-Electrical-Installation-Certificate-v2.aspx

For additional work to an existing circuit, I have fill this in
https://www.elecsa.co.uk/Documents/.../BS7671-Amd1-Minor-Works-Certificate-(1).aspx

 

[ericmark]

The main problem is most of us don't work in Scotland and we know the rules are not the same as England and Wales.

The BS 7671:2008 is the same so we can comment on the work and it is assumed you will need the standard installation and or minor works certificate for all work done.

But I for one have never heard of a "select qualified electrician" and no idea of what is required for a "building warrant" as I would assume these are special to Scotland?

In Wales building size would have a bearing on smoke alarms in the main these are wired with Ali-tube and on there own circuit so some one installing smoke alarms would have nothing to do with the rest of the wiring.

In some cases they do use the lighting circuit but normally the smoke alarm requirement will not be worked out by a standard electrician there would be some specialist who would decide what is required even if then a standard electrician installed it all.

Since you are asking about such a specialist subject I for one looked at the post and decided I didn't know enough about Scottish law or fire alarms to advise.

Our building regulations are divided into Parts and for Fire it's Part B and if I wanted to know in Wales what is required I would down load and read.

It's not that we don't want to help it's just it's beyond our normal work experience.

 

[skenk]

Hi,
I need to pay a select qualified electrician to install a smoke alarm for an up and coming building warrant (Scotland).

Not correct, your electrician doesn't need to be SELECT registered (NICEIC should also be perfectly acceptable and many councils don't require the electrician to be registered at all if they are satisfied the certification has been completed by someone competent), if your BC officer told you that, they are wrong, but it may not be worth arguing as you are somewhat at their mercy.

A few electrician have commented the certificate costs £150 as they need to check the wiring in ALL of the house.

They are wrong they only need to provide an electrical installation certificate (EIC) covering the work they have carried out, but in order to provide a legitimate EIC things like earthing, bonding, condition of distribution board supplying the circuit etc etc have to be in order.

Surely they would just be signing off the circuit they have installed and worked on?

correct, with an EIC

What kind of things could they fail the rest of the electrics on??

They cant with an EIC, they can only provide a certificate for work they have carried out. If commissioning an EICR (elecrical installation condition report) then they can 'fail' the installation on lots of things... see prenticeboy's post.

If you are asking an electrician to certify DIY work then they need to do an EICR... an EIC is only for work they have done themselves. The EICR doesn't have to cover all circuits but if it's getting done anyway then it would be sensible to get the rest of the property checked as well and brought up to scratch.

£150 is a bargain for a thorough EICR covering all circuits, for that price it probably won't be thorough or won't be done properly or will throw up remedial works which the inspecting spark will be trying to get, which they will make money on...

 

[ericmark]

I would go by what "skenk" says. Note his location. At last you have a Scottish answer.

 

[robbieee]

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

The work 100% has to be done by a select approved electrician. The council wont budge on this unfortunately.

managed to get a select approved spark through the builder i am getting to do the structural work. £220 to fit an extra wired smoke alarm and produce a EICR. Need to quiz the spark when he comes and see what hes testing.