Part P and getting domestic DIY work certified

[Softus]

...The law certainly seems to limit exactly what DIY's can do.

IMHO this is not right. Firstly, the law isn't attempting to limit what work you can do, but to increase the legislation that detects errors. This is clearly in everyone's best interests, although many people disagree with the method and also the haphazard implementation of the checking mechanism.

I expect plumbing will be the next target.

Please don't take this too personally, but that's a naive point of view. Very few people, perhaps even none, are maimed or killed as a result of a leak resulting from a mistake in the course of 'general plumbing' work. However, there are already regulations that control the installation of both pressurised systems, which can be quite dangerous in the wrong hands, and gas appliances.

The only course of action I can see here is to declare my work to the LABC, tell them it needs inspecting and then get them to hire the appropriately "qualified" electrician to check the work....and stay out of it...

Spot on - you notify the LABC, pay your fee, and the duty to test and certify then passes to them. This is the very reason that you've been encouraged to employ your own electrican/tester/certifier - they can't afford the effort and cost of all the certifying that needs, and will need, doing.

 

[Softus]

...but surely the LABC could either:-

- perform their own testing or inspection that has nothing to do with a BS 7671 test & inspect

or

- sub contract an electrician to do a PIR and keep the results for themselves


In my understanding, both of those solutions would fulfil the obligations of part P, but the DIY'er would be left with an incomplete EIC, which is not desirable for a whole bunch of reasons.

I hope i'm missing something. Thoughts and comments, anyone?

I believe, but don't know for sure, that the payment of a fee leads to a certificate for the work. This would preclude the 'keeping of the information to themselves', and I can't see why they would want to do that anyway.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

surely the LABC could either:-

- perform their own testing or inspection that has nothing to do with a BS 7671 test & inspect

or

- sub contract an electrician to do a PIR and keep the results for themselves


In my understanding, both of those solutions would fulfil the obligations of part P, but the DIY'er would be left with an incomplete EIC, which is not desirable for a whole bunch of reasons.

I hope i'm missing something. Thoughts and comments, anyone?

I think what you're missing is the separation of the Building Regulations and the IEE Wiring Regulations (BS 7671).

The former do not require compliance with the latter.

Compliance with the Building Regulations is required by law, compliance with BS 7671 is not.

Compliance with the Building Regulations does not imply compliance with BS 7671.

It is possible to do work which contravenes BS 7671 but does comply with the Building Regulations (good luck in convincing LABC of that, though... )

Crucially, compliance with BS 7671 does not provide compliance with the Building Regulations - there is the matter of notification, and certification of compliance with the Building Regulations.

1) If you use an electrician who can self-certify compliance with the Building Regulations, he will almost certainly work to BS 7671, provide you with an EIC, and via his scheme organiser notify the work, and that is how you will then get your Building Regulations completion certificate.

2) If you use an electrician who cannot self-certify, but can work to BS 7671, and issue EICs, and who the council accept is competent, he will give you the EIC, you will show that to the council (who you will already have notified and to whom you will already have paid a fee), and they will look at the EIC and give you the Building Regulations completion certificate.

Real VFM that....

3) If you DIY, or use an electrician who they do not regard as competent, then what should happen is that out of their fee they do the I&T and then they issue the completion certificate. (Assuming the work is OK). As you point out, it is for them to decide what they should do in the way of I&T, and since the Building Regulations do not mandate working to BS 7671, there is no requirement for them to inspect & test to BS 7671, or issue a PIR or an EIC. And if they do issue one, or if they subcontract to an electrician who issues one, then I don't see that they are under any obligation to give it to you. You have paid them for the work associated with determining compliance with the Building Regulations and the issue of the completion certificate.

If you want a EIC, and they won't give it to you, then you have to go with routes 1 or 2 above.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Maybe we shouldnt be so hasty in getting to court after all?

Well - nobody should resort to court action rashly or in haste (although I was on a sales course once with the usual amount of psychobbablebullshitarmchairpyschologist stuff and we were asked what we would do if we won the lottery, and didn't have to work again. I answered "become a vexatious litigant" )

But I think you're misinterpreting what I said about the ODPM guidelines. Yes they have no legal significance, a fact recognised by all the LABCs who are sticking two fingers up at them over this.

But that does not mean that the opinion of the ODPM is wrong, any more than it means that I am wrong in what I say, or what anyone says.

I may be perfectly correct on a legal aspect, but if you went to court, and tried to argue that "so-and-so is in the wrong because BAS says so" you'd not get very far.

Same with the ODPM's view on the legality of what LABCs are doing. If you took one to court, you, or your solicitor, would advance the same argument as the ODPM, and the judge would decide if it was correct, based on his interpretation of the law. He would probably not need, nor be much interested in, the ODPM's opinion.

And if he found against them, he would rule that they were in breach of the law, not in breach of the ODPM's guidelines.

That's what I mean by "of no legal significance".

 

[Chris.J]

Ban-all-sheds wrote
"become a vexatious litigant".

Like it.

 

[slippyr4]

Thanks bas, more or less what I thought. I spose that if I don't get a fully completed EIC, but do get my LABC certificate, then I just pay someone to do a PIR - although the paperwork will be different I will then have a design and install to the regs, and equivalent testing, with the results on my hand.