Vaillant Ecotec Plus vs Vaillant Ecofit Pure

[Mr.B]

Am I the only one to find it disconcerting that, in a couple of different posts above, we were categorically old that the Eco Plus heat only boiler has a stainless HEX when, as far as I can see, it simply doesn't. I did see one brief reference (in Vaillant's own literature) that said the 435 heat only plus model had a stainless HEX, but elsewhere Vaillant stick to the aluminium line of thinking.

No wonder there's confusion and uncertainty when the lay people amongst us (me included) try to make the right decision but are given duff info.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Am I the only one to find it disconcerting that, in a couple of different posts above, we were categorically old that the Eco Plus heat only boiler has a stainless HEX when, as far as I can see, it simply doesn't. I did see one brief reference (in Vaillant's own literature) that said the 435 heat only plus model had a stainless HEX, but elsewhere Vaillant stick to the aluminium line of thinking.

No wonder there's confusion and uncertainty when the lay people amongst us (me included) try to make the right decision but are given duff info.

Lay people don't specify heating systems. Experienced heating installers do. Why not look at the Vaillant website for up to date literature, things change constantly in manufacturing and its been a fair while since there were any stainless heat exchangers in the open vent range.

 

[Mr.B]

You're right, it's not the job of lay people to specify systems but some of them have an interest in what's fitted and the experienced heating installer isn't going to walk in, pronounce what'll get fitted with no input from the customer - surely they'll ask the customer roughly what they have in mind and what they hope to achieve as well as use their experience to advise and calculate? And some of the slightly more enthusiastic consumers might have had experience with this or that system - and, possibly, have their own experience with a combi or a system boiler or an open vent system .... even extending to having good or bad experience with stainless or aluminium.

And my point was that the customer would hope that the experienced heating installer would know if a particular boiler had an aluminium or a stainless heat exchanger, especially as experienced heating installers often remind us lay people that the heat exchanger is a rather major part of the thing and may form part of the decision process.

I did refer to Vaillant's website before posting above and mentioned the reference to their literature in my post and it confirmed the use of aluminium and I, too, thought it was generally known that stainless hasn't been used for most heat only, open vent boilers for a while - but we were told the opposite above and all I'm saying is it was that which I found a bit disconcerting - no more ... and you've reiterated that it's the installer who specifys systems and I'd like to think I could rely on the the installer to know what the heat exchanger is made from.

 

[Mottie]

Its not all bad news with an aluminium heat exchangers according to some……
https://idealheating.com/tips-and-advice/aluminium-heat-exchangers-the-benefits
https://idealheating.com/tips-and-advice/aluminium-heat-exchangers-the-benefits

https://www.weil-mclain.com/sites/d...er-comparison-aluminum-vs-stainless-steel.pdf

 

[Mr.B]

^^^^ Blimey, that second article is comprehensive! I'm sure a metallurgist would read through it with a trained eye and have something to say but, for those of us who aren't so well qualified, I'd say it went some way to making us feel better if we had a new boiler with an aluminium heat exchanger fitted to it.

And the first article will mollify those who'd recently bought an Ideal Logic.... or even encourage those of us who haven't taken the plunge to consider an Ideal Logic.

 

[JohnD]

It's quite common to hear a manufacturer claim that the materials he uses are good.

What would you expect them to say?

 

[Mr.B]

^^^^ OK, I withdraw the second point - but stick by the first.

 

[xanaxx]

Thank you for all your detailed explanations and interesting points. I agree there is a lot of confusion about hex in heat only range and I have done a detailed research now. Only Veissman has stainless steel hex in open vent and the rest are aluminum.

Anyways, i have finally finalised the deal after my mini-research on the topic. I tried to go for the Veissman Vitodens 100W due to stainless steel hex but installation would have been a bit complex as the current Veissmans heat-only have the flue offset to the left and my current 16 year old Vaillant is to the right. The location of boiler inside a boiler cupboard in utility room meant it had to be <700mm tall and a left sided flue meant another drilling in the house which I did not want. Secondly, heat analysis done by an expert showed all my radiators together would push a max of 17.5Kw in full throttle. I added another 1-2kW for heat loss and another 4-5 kW for hot water, so 24-25kW was sufficient (bearing in mind that due to normal wear and tear over the years, no boiler would work at its max wattage, which would reduce).

Between Ecofit Pure 25kW and Ecotec Plus 24kW, i was told there wasnt much difference at all, as all heat only Vaillants are the same. I was also informed that both these models have less plastic than in some well-known premium as well as less premium brands, hence still a better option.

The other difference between the two was that Ecofit Pure was just a tad bit smaller than the Ecotec Plus in depth. Once you lift the screen cover of Ecotec Plus, the buttons look set pretty much like an Ecofit Pure model. Also, surprisingly , I was quoted slightly higher for Ecofit Pure than the Ecotec Plus(not by much). When I said I thought Ecotec Plus was the more expensive model, I was told that is true in the combi/systems boiler range but not in Heat only according to their supplies and the difference was only worth the extra 1 kW in the Ecofit Pure.

I went for the Ecofit Pure with 10 years warranty in the end due to the smaller size, didnt mind the exposed buttons on the boiler as it would be hidden inside a cupboard anyways, and an extra kW doesnt hurt. This, along with Ecowater water softener to protect the life of the boiler, aluminum hex in it and the megaflo system as I live in the south

 

[Mr.B]

Well, I, for one, found your research and conclusion interesting.

You sound a bit like me insofar as you like to know what's what and you went out of your way to find out as best you could. I've done a bit of digging myself in order to find the most suitable solution when my current boiler gives up the ghost (assuming that one day it will) and you've suggested points that I wasn't aware of.

I hope it goes well for you and that you might return to advise how it went.

 

[xanaxx]

Well, I, for one, found your research and conclusion interesting.

You sound a bit like me insofar as you like to know what's what and you went out of your way to find out as best you could. I've done a bit of digging myself in order to find the most suitable solution when my current boiler gives up the ghost (assuming that one day it will) and you've suggested points that I wasn't aware of.

I hope it goes well for you and that you might return to advise how it went.

I thought Id return for some advice to dispel some myths that i am sure will help many in the same situation as mine. UnfortuNately there aint much useful information on how things work, so I hope this is going to be helpful for many. Before that, a disclaimer that I am by no means a gas engineer or an expert and this is from whatever information I gathered during installation of my boiler.

i got a 25kW Ecofit Pure Heat only boiler in the end. For those interested to know why not an Ecotec Plus, please read my previous post above.

1) There is a lot of misinformation on gas pipes and boiler types. Basically, the gas supply at your meter has to be a minimum of 19 mbars and a max of 23 mbars which is the minimum and maximum supply requirement every house should be given. The requirement is a maximum of 1mbar drop of pressure at the boiler for it to be approved and signed off by the engineer. If there is a significant drop (>1mbar) of the pressure at your boiler, the engineer cannot approve it and your extended 10 year warranty will not be activated. So if the gas pressure is 20mbar at the meter, it has to be 19 mbar at the boiler. My gas pipe was hidden and there is no way to find out if it was 15, 22 or 28mm within the structure. The only way to find out was to test it after installation. My pressure at the gas meter was 19.4, at the boiler was 16.4. A significant drop of 3mbar meant i am having to get a new gas pipe installed around the structure of the house to be able to get the full 10 year boiler warranty.

2) Ive seen some believe that heat only boiler is more likely to pass a 15mm gas pipe test at higher wattage. Wrong. The engineer will test it at full 25kw if you have a 25kw boiler, at full 30kw if you have a 30kw boiler. Doesnt matter if you have a combi, system or heat only boiler, your wattage at which the boiler will be tested is the full wattage you purchase. As above, mine failed at 9-10m distance between the boiler and the gas meter. Probably, most of it in the structure is a 15mm gas pipe. I chose to run a 28mm gas pipe which is now going to go 19-20m around the house, a situation i wanted to avoid but i have no other option.

3) You should check the maximum wattage of your hot water cylinder and ensure you atleast have that wattage on your boiler to be able to heat your water at its full speed (which is hot water in 20 minutes at the advertised wattage). If your boiler has a lower wattage than on your cylinder, the cylinder isnt working at full capacity and it will take longer to heat water. One way to manage this would be to time your hot water 1 hour before your heating goes off in the morning and evening. I have a 300 litre megaflo with a wattage specified at 24.5kw. One can argue going lower than that on the boiler is acceptable and i agree it is, if you are happy to work your cylinder at lower than its maximum capacity. Bear in mind that if you have heating on simultaneous with hot water, your cylinder will only be able to extract only what the boiler is left with to deliver your cylinder. Also calculate some loss of heat as no system is 100% efficient.

4) Your boiler temperature and hot water cylinder temperature has to be set at an appropriate level, with boiler temperature higher than cylinder temperature, otherwise your boiler will never shut down in trying to get your cylinder water to a temperature it will never get to as youve kept your cylinder temperature higher than the boiler temperature. Ive kept my cylinder temp at 60C and boiler at 65C, and my hot water is timed (via a separate Drayton timer) to come for one hour in the morning and evening, before the heating kicks off depending on the temperature my Nest Learning thermostat is set at and outside temperature.

Hope this was helpful

 

[Mr.B]

Ta for the above. I'm not qualified to make any comments so will just take note and see if others have anything to add.

I would just ask if you had looked to see if it were possible to shorten your new gas supply by going up, from the meter, to the loft and crossing the loft and dropping down somewhere that might be convenient. I only say that having just done that here ... the meter happens to be adjacent to a rainwater down pipe so there is now a new 28mm copper tube run behind the rainwater down pipe which goes up to the soffit where it connects to 28mm flexible Tracpipe which runs across the loft clipped to its own length of sawn timber for support and then drops down into the airing cupboard, from where there's a choice of routes for it - it's currently live but capped off (the connections having been done by a GasSafe installer). The Tracpipe is 10metres long and the copper up the front of the house, behind the RWP is about 4 metres.
(I ran it thinking I might instal a combi boiler near to where the Tracpipe run finishes and knowing that the current gas supply to my heat only boiler is, apparently, right on the limit .... it's run in 22mm and the drop in pressure at the boiler is the maximum allowed (according to the gas fitter who checked it) hence making provision for a new boiler when the time comes.

 

[xanaxx]

Ta for the above. I'm not qualified to make any comments so will just take note and see if others have anything to add.

I would just ask if you had looked to see if it were possible to shorten your new gas supply by going up, from the meter, to the loft and crossing the loft and dropping down somewhere that might be convenient. I only say that having just done that here ... the meter happens to be adjacent to a rainwater down pipe so there is now a new 28mm copper tube run behind the rainwater down pipe which goes up to the soffit where it connects to 28mm flexible Tracpipe which runs across the loft clipped to its own length of sawn timber for support and then drops down into the airing cupboard, from where there's a choice of routes for it - it's currently live but capped off (the connections having been done by a GasSafe installer). The Tracpipe is 10metres long and the copper up the front of the house, behind the RWP is about 4 metres.
(I ran it thinking I might instal a combi boiler near to where the Tracpipe run finishes and knowing that the current gas supply to my heat only boiler is, apparently, right on the limit .... it's run in 22mm and the drop in pressure at the boiler is the maximum allowed (according to the gas fitter who checked it) hence making provision for a new boiler when the time comes.

Hiya yes that is another option I agree. Id say either way is fine.