Very strange symptom - firebird boiler Reillo burner just blowing

[Terrywookfit]

FFS try a new cell with a 530 SE.
Talk about Blind leading the blind.

 

[Johntheo5]

Hi all, here is an update . I got the engineer who serviced the boiler to come and look into the fault. It is now worse as it fires up from cold and when it gets to temp refuses to relight but now it also shuts off the flame when I close the airtight cover to the motor!! It still blows however and the odds no flame out light. Anyone with any ideas welcome. M

Just looking back through these posts again.

Are you saying that it refuses to relight even with the cover off or have you tried running it with this cover removed temporarily?.

Hi Terry, I fitted a brand new control box and got the same symptoms. I haven’t changed the photo cell but it was replaced 3 years ago and has passed all the usual tests. It has a balanced flue leading to the outside but has worked for over 20 years and nothing has changed unless you can think of something. M

Does the new control box not include a photo cell and if not, they should be easily available, I think there are two different types, don't know if the one you removed from the old box is compatible with the new one.
As suggested by someone the oil valve solenoid would be high on the suspect list, it might check out OK with a multimeter but still break down after heating up.

 

[Firebirdfan]

FFS try a new cell with a 530 SE.
Talk about Blind leading the blind.

Hi Terry, thanks for the suggestion, I have already tried a new 530 SE but will take your advise and fit a new cell to see if that works. M

 

[Firebirdfan]

Just looking back through these posts again.

Are you saying that it refuses to relight even with the cover off or have you tried running it with this cover removed temporarily?.

Does the new control box not include a photo cell and if not, they should be easily available, I think there are two different types, don't know if the one you removed from the old box is compatible with the new one.
As suggested by someone the oil valve solenoid would be high on the suspect list, it might check out OK with a multimeter but still break down after heating up.

Hi John, the new box did not come with photo cell but as recommended by Terry I will buy one on Monday and try that first as it is not too pricy. The flame shut off symptom when the cover was closed was weird as this symptom was not there before the engineer visited. However now it still fires up with or without the cover, gets to temp and then when it tries to relight after the water temp goes down goes into blow mode with no flame but no flame out light. I have tried to replicate his problem during the firing but closing the cover now does nothing to stop the firing!

 

[ChrisJP]

My money's still on the oil valve solenoid coil which fails as it gets warm and shuts off the oil supply to the burner. These coils are pretty cheap and you don't often need to change the valve itself - just the coil, so it must be worth a try?

 

[Firebirdfan]

My money's still on the oil valve solenoid coil which fails as it gets warm and shuts off the oil supply to the burner. These coils are pretty cheap and you don't often need to change the valve itself - just the coil, so it must be worth a try?

Thanks for that Chris, either way it's only going to cost about £40 tops so if we get a solution I will be happy to see it. Will let you know the outcome whether pos or neg. M

 

[oilhead]

I can't tell from your previous posts whether you have tried anothe photocell apart from the one fitted 3 years ago, that would be my 1st port of call. A failed coil would not cause permanent prepurge which is what you are getting. . Regarding the cut out when the burner cover is replaced, have you checked for flue leaks from the burner flasnge joint to the boiler. After 20 yrs this could well be leaking. Obviously you or your engineer will need a flue gas analyser. I've found this area a problem on older Camrays.

 

[Firebirdfan]

I can't tell from your previous posts whether you have tried anothe photocell apart from the one fitted 3 years ago, that would be my 1st port of call. A failed coil would not cause permanent prepurge which is what you are getting. . Regarding the cut out when the burner cover is replaced, have you checked for flue leaks from the burner flasnge joint to the boiler. After 20 yrs this could well be leaking. Obviously you or your engineer will need a flue gas analyser. I've found this area a problem on older Camrays.

Thanks for this info. I am going to change the photo cell tomorrow and if this does not cure it then move on to the solenoid. I am assuming that it would need a leak in both the inlet and outlet for contamination to occur? Fingers crossed the first two fixes cure it otherwise it is a big job. M

 

[oilhead]

The burner flange is neither the inlet or the outlet. It is the gasket between the boiler body and the flange to which the burner is fastened. On a boiler this old, it is quite possible you may need a new gasket and some high temp silicone to effect a good seal. You also need to ensure the flueways are also clear and unobstructed.

 

[Johntheo5]

This one ??.

 

[Firebirdfan]

Hi All, well whoever had their money on the coil breaking down when hot was spot on. A new photo cell did nothing, but changing the coil sorted the issue. My many thanks to all who contributed including John, Oilhead and Chris you were invaluable. And Terry, better luck next time FFS. Cheers M

 

[Firebirdfan]

The burner flange is neither the inlet or the outlet. It is the gasket between the boiler body and the flange to which the burner is fastened. On a boiler this old, it is quite possible you may need a new gasket and some high temp silicone to effect a good seal. You also need to ensure the flueways are also clear and unobstructed.

Final thing, thanks for the info about the burner flange. The seal still seems to be working but even if it was leaking a bit it would not be as poor a seal as the one between the burner itself and this flange as the single top bolt fixing does not make a good airtight seal at the bottom as both myself and John have noted on both our boilers. M

 

[oilhead]

You'll improve the burner tp flange seal with a new rubber O ring if it is still there, or hasn't been changed in 20 years.

 

[Firebirdfan]

You'll improve the burner tp flange seal with a new rubber O ring if it is still there, or hasn't been changed in 20 years.

Hi oil head thanks for getting back. There is no rubber o ring nor is there one on the schematic on the Firebird manual. It is a simple rebate producing a metal to metal seal. I think John,s burner is the same. M

 

[Johntheo5]

I've been the only one to have removed my burner and there isn't a O ring, nor is there in two of my relations.