Wall mounted boiler frame not flush with wall at top

[Gavinoneill]

Worcester only allow pipes up the back of the boiler within the wall jig on far left and right, and only in certain places lower down under the expansion vessel. The reason for this is two fold, one to enable removal of the expansion vessel and two so the pipes don't obstruct the prv. The reason the wall jig won't go back to the wall correctly is because the pipes are in the wrong place and up tight on the expansion vessel. It's all in the installation manual exactly where pipes can and cannot go. We would normally use the paper wall jig contained in the pack as a guide during installation to prevent these kind of issues. I would normally hang the wall jig on 9mm external grade ply if the wall fixing aren't looking great, just to spread the weight out.

 

[sjchapman]

Thanks Gavin. Do you think it's dangerous though or something I should just live with?

I wondered if (as per my original post) that some sort of corner braces or small brackets could be added to strengthen the structure to the wall - it would certainly save taking the boiler out and adjusting pipe work etc.

I also fully appreciate the boxing in is tight and if and when the boiler needs to come out will probably ask the chippy to design something that comes out completely or can be removed in whole and just screwed to batons on the floor/wall etc for access.

Live with it?

 

[muggles]

I wondered if (as per my original post) that some sort of corner braces or small brackets could be added to strengthen the structure to the wall

If you're asking whether you can drill into the bolter casing to attach brackets to it, the answer is "absolutely not!" as you'd then be modifying the boiler from the manufacturers' specification.

Push the boiler towards the wall and see whether it goes loose on the screws. If it doesn't it's probably fine. You're going to need to move the cupboard when that expansion vessel needs replacing though, so it might be worth investigating the possibility of getting the cupboard out now anyway while there's no emergency

 

[sjchapman]

to get the boiler frame flush to the wall (as Wocester say it should be) I assume the boiler will need to come out which would probably mean the surrounding cabinet being dismantled.

As I have paid for a chippy to box it in already, not to mention the fact I will lose time overseeing them put this right (I'm self employed) I assume I'm within my rights to pass this cost on to the installers. Why should I have to pay to get the boxing in re-done if the boiler wasn't installed correctly in the first place?

The thing that really bothers me is the worry of a gas leak and possible explosion

So, just to be clear, you've had someone box in your boiler in such a way that the boxing unit will need to be dismantled and most likely destroyed in the event that major work needs to be done to the boiler, and you now feel that the person carrying out said major work should be responsible for replacing the non-removable boxing you've installed

Sorry, but the person responsible for specifying the boxing should have specified that it be built to be removable so that the boiler could be have such works carried out unobstructed. The failure in the boxing specification is not the fault of the boiler installer

Whilst I've already said I should have created a cabinet thats easily detachable from the wall etc, if it had to some down as there was a fault with the boiler then fair enough - my mistake and at least its lasted a few years - but in this case if the boiler was not installed as per the specs on the installation guide, and they should have used batons etc to move it off the wall level etc - (thus not instal it correctly) then surely it's their fault and not mine?

I'll probably have to stump up to re-box it in (in a new design thats removable if possible) but they can come and make the boiler good and safe for free- I'm certainly not paying them if they didn't follow manufacturers installation specs

 

[sjchapman]

I wondered if (as per my original post) that some sort of corner braces or small brackets could be added to strengthen the structure to the wall

If you're asking whether you can drill into the bolter casing to attach brackets to it, the answer is "absolutely not!" as you'd then be modifying the boiler from the manufacturers' specification.

Push the boiler towards the wall and see whether it goes loose on the screws. If it doesn't it's probably fine. You're going to need to move the cupboard when that expansion vessel needs replacing though, so it might be worth investigating the possibility of getting the cupboard out now anyway while there's no emergency

Cheers Muggles.

For peace of mind should I invest in a (flamable gas detector) and locate it near the boiler (not a CO one - I've got one of those) and in your opinion I could remove said boxing in and get them to mount the frame on wooden batons so it's a bit proud of the wall) - would this be safer?

Thanks for your help.

 

[muggles]

It's not going to suddenly start leaking gas - it'll have to come a long way off the wall before that happens. You need to establish whether it's actually moved or whether it's always been like that first. If it's not moved there's no reason to be concerned. Mounting boilers on timber isn't generally permitted (check manufacturers' instructions re: flammable surfaces)

 

[sjchapman]

It's not going to suddenly start leaking gas - it'll have to come a long way off the wall before that happens. You need to establish whether it's actually moved or whether it's always been like that first. If it's not moved there's no reason to be concerned. Mounting boilers on timber isn't generally permitted (check manufacturers' instructions re: flammable surfaces)

Cheers Muggles. Would you advise to get them round to have a butchers (to ensure it's safe?)? and in the meantime talk to the chippy about designing a new box that easily detaches for easy access?

My main concern is if there was a gas leak though obviously, and then when the boiler tried to fire up It'd ignite etc...I'm not sure if thats possible because it's a sealed unit etc etc (???)- just concerned for the safety of my family and not 100% sure how these things work

Thanks for all opinions/help though

 

[Agile]

Certainly get the installer to have a look.

But my view is that if anyone obstructs the boiler after installation with kitchen fittings then that's nothing to do with the boiler installer.

Boiler mounting brackets are usually specified as only needing TWO mounting screws.

I always like to use THREE mounting bolts so that no coming off the wall would ever happen with anything that I ever fitted.

I did once see a very dangerous boiler whose weight was supported on the pipes underneath and only the flue stopped it falling into the room. It had already come forward about 25 mm into the room at the top.

Tony

 

[sjchapman]

Certainly get the installer to have a look.

But my view is that if anyone obstructs the boiler after installation with kitchen fittings then that's nothing to do with the boiler installer.

Boiler mounting brackets are usually specified as only needing TWO mounting screws.

I always like to use THREE mounting bolts so that no coming off the wall would ever happen with anything that I ever fitted.

I did once see a very dangerous boiler whose weight was supported on the pipes underneath and only the flue stopped it falling into the room. It had already come forward about 25 mm into the room at the top.

Tony

Thanks Tony but forgetting the casing would you be concerned by the pics I posted if they were the only 2 screws used and would you take the boiler out and re-mount it to be safe?

The cabinet coming out can be done if the boiler is not safe..

 

[Aquaheat]

Cheers Muggles. Would you advise to get them round to have a butchers (to ensure it's safe?)? and in the meantime talk to the chippy about designing a new box that easily detaches for easy access?

Just this at the moment mate. See what the installer says and take it from there. As I said last night it does look safe from the pics and as long as its secure then I'd be happy. Certainly not something I'd pull on an inspection unless it was obvious that it was loose or that it had pulled away from the wall to end up in that position.

As for gas leaks that is pretty negligible. If it moved that much to create a gas leak the boiler would be hanging off the wall and the flue buggered too although all the water that was pishing out would put out the fire risk! lol

Jon

 

[sjchapman]

Cheers Muggles. Would you advise to get them round to have a butchers (to ensure it's safe?)? and in the meantime talk to the chippy about designing a new box that easily detaches for easy access?

Just this at the moment mate. See what the installer says and take it from there. As I said last night it does look safe from the pics and as long as its secure then I'd be happy. Certainly not something I'd pull on an inspection unless it was obvious that it was loose or that it had pulled away from the wall to end up in that position.

As for gas leaks that is pretty negligible. If it moved that much to create a gas leak the boiler would be hanging off the wall and the flue buggered too although all the water that was pishing out would put out the fire risk! lol

Jon

Cheers Jon - Just not knowing much about boilers and gas I always fear the worst - ie explosion - if there was a bad gas leak and the boiler fired up during the night etc in winter and caused chaos....My old man was a fireman and heard horror stories, - this was back in the 70s and 80s though

 

[muggles]

You'll know if it's started leaking gas badly as you'll have heard the bang when it hit the floor. It's not going to start leaking just because it's moved a couple of mm at the top, and we're not even sure if that's actually happened!

 

[Agile]

I would pull firmly on it to test the strength of the mounting bracket fixing to the wall.

But as I would never fit bracket screws like that the question of me returning to inspect it would not occur.

 

[DP]

A wall plug is meant to sit in solid part of the wall i.e. brick
The hole for the fixing has to go beyond the plaster depth, into the brick
The hole must be same depth as screw length or slightly deeper
Screw has to be appropriate size to plug used
All this results in good fixing

In one of the pictures, a good length of brown plug is surface and not securing anything

Tony, where would you put the third screw?

 

[gigz]

Haven't read all replies but remember the boiler weight is pulling down the wall, not out towards you. I would get him to come and have a look but i wouldn't worry about it, seen a LOT worse when replacing boilers and have a job getting them off.