Wallstar oil boiler locking out, air in feed?

[dazed007]

Hello,

Our domestic oil boiler locked out recently which turned out to be a faulty fire valve allowing air into the oil feed, this was replaced and all seemed OK but now a week later the boiler has been locking out again, seemingly being starved of oil but I'm not 100% this is the case and before I go back to the same company to resolve I'd like to hear some else's opinion.

I've attached a couple of pictures of the setup, hopefully you can make out in the first image the oil is at the top of the tube then it's air, and the second image is all air except a dribble at the end.

Does this look normal? Should there be any air in these tubes? I'm just after some opinions before I go back to the company and potentially incur more charges...

 

[Terrywookfit]

Looks like a DIY job with the thread tape and nipple on the fire valve.
It's normal to have a bubble in the top bend but the photo looks as though the filter is empty.
How far is the tank below the burner.

 

[dazed007]

Thanks for replying, yes the filter looked empty but after resetting and angling the tube the boiler operated again for a couple of days (couple of hours each day) before locking out again, in between the lockouts there seemed to be more oil in the filter and tube below which is why I think it's associated but it has only been a couple of times so not conclusive. I'll start checking the levels more often.

The 50% full tank (1,200ltr) is on ground level and around 15m away from the base of the boiler which is about 1.5m up, I'd need to measure but I don't think there is a massive difference between the top of the tank and base of the boiler height wise. The boiler has operated fine for years until the issue with the fire valve (lots and lots of small bubbles in the tube), however the new tubing has a filter which I don't recall and seems longer than the old one but I have no pictures to be sure.


Edit - Just re-read your reply you said it's normal to have a bubble in the top bend, just in case it isn't clear in the picture there is no oil after the point it stops at the top bend.

 

[oilhead]

Where the oil lies, it seems that the non return valve is working, as it would seem that the oil has drained through the oil pump. One possibility is that the shaft seal is leaking, which may be seen if the oil pump is removed from the motor. The other possibility is that there is a leak in the flexi at the pump connection, or either of those connections at the filter. I've never seen a flexi like that; is it a recommended spare?

 

[Terrywookfit]

There are two hoses available....with and without a filter. It shouldn't make a difference.

Check all the oil line joints and remake.

 

[dazed007]

Where the oil lies, it seems that the non return valve is working, as it would seem that the oil has drained through the oil pump. One possibility is that the shaft seal is leaking, which may be seen if the oil pump is removed from the motor. The other possibility is that there is a leak in the flexi at the pump connection, or either of those connections at the filter. I've never seen a flexi like that; is it a recommended spare?

There are two hoses available....with and without a filter. It shouldn't make a difference.

Check all the oil line joints and remake.

Hi both, there aren't any obvious leaks and the company that supplied the spare are pretty big and reputable around here so I'd hope it was a recommended spare but don't have the expertise myself. The issue is they seem to want to charge before they even pick the phone up hence why I'm trying to understand if I should expect the hoses and filter to be full of oil or if their isn't anything particularly unusual in what you see in the pictures before I go back to them.

I'm home from work now and there is about a cm of oil both in the bottom hose and the filter, the top hose looks much the same with nothing but air between the top bend and the filter.

Thanks

 

[oilboffin]

Sorry I know the burner has a danfoss pump but with the tank 15mtrs away I'd put a tigerloop on the oil system and if it's at the same level as the pump you'll have no more probs.Bob

 

[oilhead]

Never seen the need for a Tiger loop on a Wallstar. If the non return valve is good, and all joints are sound, then they work. They usually run with an air bubble of anything up to 2-3 inches static. This can often be reduced periodically by manipulating the flexi whilst the burner is running.

 

[oilboffin]

If the tank is near the boiler then it's ok but 15mtrs is quite a way I've done tigers many times and all have worked.Bob

 

[Terrywookfit]

If the tank is near the boiler then it's ok but 15mtrs is quite a way I've done tigers many times and all have worked.Bob

But 13.5 of them are gravity fed.

I agree that a loop would solve the problem.

 

[oilboffin]

Cheers T.Bob

 

[snb]

If the tank is near the boiler then it's ok but 15mtrs is quite a way I've done tigers many times and all have worked.Bob

Tiger loops are not recommended for Hrms. Not sure why but they don't like the systems to be of the 2 pipe setup.

My guess on the system fault is that there is either a leak on one of the joints or the fire valve is letting in air.

Never had a problem with distance from oil tank to burner on Hrms and even with some of them with up to 3m negative head with tank up to 100m away. Non return valve and fire valve have to work, and i prefer to have flared fittings. Compression fittings may not leak out, but are often the cause of air ingress if they are not made correctly with liners etc

 

[oilboffin]

I like hrms they are in my top ten but I've put tigers on a few never had any bother.Also talked to HRM and although they don't seem to like it they don't object to them.Bob

 

[dazed007]

Thanks for all the replies, the boiler was OK for a couple of weeks and then locked out again this morning, I just flattened the pipe to get more oil at the pump end and it was OK again. I did come across the below thread which is highly relevant so will consider a tiger loop or new ebi ignition unit which seemed to resolve the below issue...

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/hrm-wallstar-lockout.63928/

Edit: Another highly relevant thread:

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/wallstar-boiler-keeps-locking-out-getting-air-in-the-p.410624/

 

[muggles]

Wallstar installation instructions say quite specifically not to use a Tigerloop on their boilers. If you're observing lots of small bubbles in the tube, particularly if they're moving, this is indicative of a leak on the oil line and the whole point of the clear tube is to show when this may be happening. It might not be enough of a leak to let oil out, but smaller air molecules are getting in when the pump is running. Your joints need taking apart and re-making, preferably with some Heldite to seal them