If the boiler locks out when switched on and you are on the spot at that moment you can sometimes get a wiff of oil at the flue or around the burner indicating an ignition problem. It's not scientific but may help.
Wallstar oil boiler locking out
- Thread starter nodiyer
- Start date
Sponsored Links
I haven't seen any sign that nodiyer has followed AlanE's excellent points of advice.
To corroborate one of them, I've seen one particular Wallstar with what appeared to be exactly the same symptoms, and the cause was a poor oil flow caused by an immense quantity of crud in the filter between tank and fire check valve.
nodiyer wrote
AlanE wrote
Softus wrote
Dont you think that the techies that the OP called out would have been competent to make these checks and correct accordingly ?.
Or is he a bluffing (out of his depth) cheapskate trying to effect a cheap diy repair ?.
AlanE wrote
Softus wrote
Dont you think that the techies that the OP called out would have been competent to make these checks and correct accordingly ?.
Or is he a bluffing (out of his depth) cheapskate trying to effect a cheap diy repair ?.
Sponsored Links
If the boiler is higher than the tank and using a tigerloop then disconnecting the oil line from the pump will not show a flow of oil.
You will only get a flow of oil to the pump if the tank is giving a head of oil over the burner.
The wiff of oil is caused by the oil not igniting properly due to poor ignition but check you are getting this at lockout on start up. If this is the case check electrodes for cracks, leads, transformer, shorting out on the high tension side and control box.
I would also suggest getting an engineer who is working on oil regularly.
You will only get a flow of oil to the pump if the tank is giving a head of oil over the burner.
The wiff of oil is caused by the oil not igniting properly due to poor ignition but check you are getting this at lockout on start up. If this is the case check electrodes for cracks, leads, transformer, shorting out on the high tension side and control box.
I would also suggest getting an engineer who is working on oil regularly.
Well I think I will leave it there as it is getting too technical and there are some things I cannot do myself. I was just hoping for pointers of things I could check myself to give another engineer more information when he comes out so he does not go over everything else that the previous engineer has already done. It seems to me that it is just trial and error by replacing parts.
I am not a cheapskate and trying to DIY it. I was just looking for advice as the expert (and he is specifically oil) I called out cost a fortune and could not fix it.
Thanks to all of you who gave constructive advice.
I am not a cheapskate and trying to DIY it. I was just looking for advice as the expert (and he is specifically oil) I called out cost a fortune and could not fix it.
Thanks to all of you who gave constructive advice.
Not for a proper oil boiler engineer. He should be capable of visiting and carrying out a few basic diagnostic checks and then forming an opinion. As for collating information to give an engineer well!! If I went to this boiler and was told by the householder he had done this research on a forum so do this and that I would not be happy chappy.
Yes I admit oil flow, using the method I suggested, could could be problomatic given certain circumstances. But then there was no mention of a deairator by OP. Certain ones need priming to make them work at all. All this information can only be gleened for forum replies from information actually posted otherwise yes much is guesswork.
Basic tests Pump pressure and vacuum. The latter would instantly ascertain any oil feed problems whatever position of oil level relative to burner.
At the moment there is no definite indication that the burner has even been PROPERLY serviced. Nor that anyone actually working on the boiler is qualified with the correct equipment! Loads of parts changed that would have no bearing on the problem described.
Expert??
I fix oil boilers all day, everyday with 100% success rate so far. Having said that intermit' faults are a bloody pain and sometimes need a few visits to sort out as you can guarantee when the engineer (me) turns up it will run perfectly and give you no clues.
Some of the things I'll mention below you have already tried but I'm going to list them again because I can't be bothered to read all the way back through the posts....
Before I start...a tiger loop was mentioned somewhere... you should not have one of these on a Wallstar as they are designed for a single pipe system, something HRM are quite insistent on.
In my experience the most common cause of intermittent lock out is the BFP soleniod coil. These will invariably runs for anything from 2 to 10 minutes before beginning to fail (presumably when they heat up a bit) On one occasion I had one that failed every morning on first attempt to light and then went for the whole day with no problem..... so they don't always fail completely as someone may have said.... in fact in my experience that is the exception.
Over the last couple of years I have replaced a lot of EB1 ignition transformers on Sterling burners (I assume yours is a sterling (Red with black plastic bit that says Sterling)). These are far trickyer to detect and sometimes run for a week at a time before cutting out again. If it's not the solenoid this is usually the problem (in my experience)
MZ Photo-cell ... less common to go faulty but do sometimes, especially the long reach ones. Also check to see that the cell has a clear view of the flame as this is a more common fault. The ignition leads can get in the way of the photocell so get the engineer to check that the leads are tucked out of the way leaving a clear view of the flame. Also the newer flame tubes have a small fold in one of the blades to produce a little hole that the flame can be seen through. If yours doesn't have one it is quite simple to make one but this is a job for an engineer who has seen the newer flame tubes and knows 1) what he is looking for and 2) how to achieve it.
Control box.... the earlier 801 boxes go wrong occasionally but I've never seen a DKO970 go wrong yet. Usually when the 801's go wrong they get stuck at the pre-ignition stage running continuously without switching on the solenoid and without locking out. By the time you notice this the Ignition transformer has usually melted so you have two parts to replace... this clearly isn't your problem.
Air.... a new non return valve will cure this but by the sound of it you don't have a problem A static air bubble is quite normal and not a problem.
Oil pump... this is a possibility as the keyway can sheer off. Sometimes it catches and the pump runs fine other times it will slip a you lose pressure. The engineer can usually see a faulty pump as they often give a rapidly fluctuating pressure reading and not a steady reading.
Pump coupling.... these wear and begin to slip sometimes but this is ver easy to check so I assume your man will have done that already.
Nozzles.... don't tell the nozzle manufacturers coz they want you to have a new one every year... but if you've got nice clean oil and good filters these actually don't often give much trouble. I could count on one hand the amount of nozzles that have failed in my customers boilers in the last couple of years and still have a finger left to pick my nose with.
Here's the controversial bit (wait for the screams of protest) Nine times out of ten when you're told the boiler sooted up because of a faulty nozzle two weeks after a service it's just because the Engineer didn't set it up right (or just didn't bother to set it up assuming it worked OK with the last nozzle so would be fine with the new)
I think you should get your engineer to swap over the Transformer next and see how it is after that... as for the other bits you've tried I hope you kept them as they are clearly OK and could be put back on.
Hope this helps and you didn't get too bored getting to the end.
Now I'll just wait for the abuse about my nozzle comments to flood in.
Some of the things I'll mention below you have already tried but I'm going to list them again because I can't be bothered to read all the way back through the posts....
Before I start...a tiger loop was mentioned somewhere... you should not have one of these on a Wallstar as they are designed for a single pipe system, something HRM are quite insistent on.
In my experience the most common cause of intermittent lock out is the BFP soleniod coil. These will invariably runs for anything from 2 to 10 minutes before beginning to fail (presumably when they heat up a bit) On one occasion I had one that failed every morning on first attempt to light and then went for the whole day with no problem..... so they don't always fail completely as someone may have said.... in fact in my experience that is the exception.
Over the last couple of years I have replaced a lot of EB1 ignition transformers on Sterling burners (I assume yours is a sterling (Red with black plastic bit that says Sterling)). These are far trickyer to detect and sometimes run for a week at a time before cutting out again. If it's not the solenoid this is usually the problem (in my experience)
MZ Photo-cell ... less common to go faulty but do sometimes, especially the long reach ones. Also check to see that the cell has a clear view of the flame as this is a more common fault. The ignition leads can get in the way of the photocell so get the engineer to check that the leads are tucked out of the way leaving a clear view of the flame. Also the newer flame tubes have a small fold in one of the blades to produce a little hole that the flame can be seen through. If yours doesn't have one it is quite simple to make one but this is a job for an engineer who has seen the newer flame tubes and knows 1) what he is looking for and 2) how to achieve it.
Control box.... the earlier 801 boxes go wrong occasionally but I've never seen a DKO970 go wrong yet. Usually when the 801's go wrong they get stuck at the pre-ignition stage running continuously without switching on the solenoid and without locking out. By the time you notice this the Ignition transformer has usually melted so you have two parts to replace... this clearly isn't your problem.
Air.... a new non return valve will cure this but by the sound of it you don't have a problem A static air bubble is quite normal and not a problem.
Oil pump... this is a possibility as the keyway can sheer off. Sometimes it catches and the pump runs fine other times it will slip a you lose pressure. The engineer can usually see a faulty pump as they often give a rapidly fluctuating pressure reading and not a steady reading.
Pump coupling.... these wear and begin to slip sometimes but this is ver easy to check so I assume your man will have done that already.
Nozzles.... don't tell the nozzle manufacturers coz they want you to have a new one every year... but if you've got nice clean oil and good filters these actually don't often give much trouble. I could count on one hand the amount of nozzles that have failed in my customers boilers in the last couple of years and still have a finger left to pick my nose with.
Here's the controversial bit (wait for the screams of protest) Nine times out of ten when you're told the boiler sooted up because of a faulty nozzle two weeks after a service it's just because the Engineer didn't set it up right (or just didn't bother to set it up assuming it worked OK with the last nozzle so would be fine with the new)
I think you should get your engineer to swap over the Transformer next and see how it is after that... as for the other bits you've tried I hope you kept them as they are clearly OK and could be put back on.
Hope this helps and you didn't get too bored getting to the end.
Now I'll just wait for the abuse about my nozzle comments to flood in.
I like that ! ...... what would you call a service engineer with a nozzle habit ... a nozzler perhaps ?
Sing along to the tune of the Amy Winhouse hit "Rehab"
OFTEC tried to make me go to rehab but I said noz noz noz !!!
grib glad I aint the only one with intermittent solenoid valves.
Nozzles as a matter of course change the first time I service a particular boiler but never every year. Same with oil lines we are told they need replacing yearly (standard ones) but why except to make bigger and bigger profits for the spares suppliers.
Nozzles as a matter of course change the first time I service a particular boiler but never every year. Same with oil lines we are told they need replacing yearly (standard ones) but why except to make bigger and bigger profits for the spares suppliers.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
