Sponsored Links
D
Deleted member 105431
bet its not cheap though, which for mr "pennypincher the world is out to rip me off" rules it out straight away.
W
wolfman1
I have emailed the Lennox supplier in the uk, to see if they can quote or put me in touch with an experienced local fitter.
Are the lennox widely used in Uk? I was thinking maybe the possible future parts issue would be less of a problem (if indeed it is to be a problem) with warm air being popular in the states, i;m guessing there is millions of these over there and evevn if supply ran out here you could still get parts easily (well maybe not easily).
As for dangermouse46, i don't see your relevance, ok i want a good deal, i posted to see what kind of prices for warm air unit replacement, idid some research, and concluded that keeping the warm air was the best solution based on performance, reliability, efficiency and also has a price advantage over a wet system, i still conclude that the warm air is a better method of heating my house and it has already served someone well enough for nearly 40 yrs, without being ripped out in favour of a "proper" system,
You don't like warm air heating, it is crap because you say it is, where is the evidence of this?
Your trade has bad press (read the horror stories on here) you seek to fuel this bad press take BG for example how much for a wet system in my house? 8-9000? would it be better than 5000 for one from elsewhere, no i would guess? so why would i want to line some one elses pocket with myhard earned cash when i don't get more for my money, it makes no sense, whether a penny pinching tight wad or not (by the way i don't know many penny pinchers who choose supercharged mercs and 3.2litre XJ6's as there modes of transport)
My guess is you are feeling the pinch, the advantage for you in fitting a wet system is financial. it is simple arithmatic, a fully wet system will fill more time, it is fairly well documented that this is the reason heating engineers (some) try to push the wet systems on people, it's a good sale. I expect to experience this once ready for quotes.
I can't wait (not) for the reasons for choosing wet systems, i'm guessing they will be more efficient, better for your health, etc. etc. i'll bet they won't say "because they're more fasionable, and I make more money out of the job" they may tell me it's a parts issue, but this could be equally true for a wet system with so many different types available, quite a few may not be about in a few years ( a previous wet system i had i struggled as the boiler was 15yrs old)(a modern one probably won't last that long).
I still haven't seen any evidence that the wet system has any advantage worthy of the extra 3-4000, you would have more credability if you were honest and said you could make more money out of it.
Is the twin flow thing a combi? i can't run my power showers off of one, can I?
any way time to thrash the xj to work, earn a few extra pennies to pinch
Are the lennox widely used in Uk? I was thinking maybe the possible future parts issue would be less of a problem (if indeed it is to be a problem) with warm air being popular in the states, i;m guessing there is millions of these over there and evevn if supply ran out here you could still get parts easily (well maybe not easily).
As for dangermouse46, i don't see your relevance, ok i want a good deal, i posted to see what kind of prices for warm air unit replacement, idid some research, and concluded that keeping the warm air was the best solution based on performance, reliability, efficiency and also has a price advantage over a wet system, i still conclude that the warm air is a better method of heating my house and it has already served someone well enough for nearly 40 yrs, without being ripped out in favour of a "proper" system,
You don't like warm air heating, it is crap because you say it is, where is the evidence of this?
Your trade has bad press (read the horror stories on here) you seek to fuel this bad press take BG for example how much for a wet system in my house? 8-9000? would it be better than 5000 for one from elsewhere, no i would guess? so why would i want to line some one elses pocket with myhard earned cash when i don't get more for my money, it makes no sense, whether a penny pinching tight wad or not (by the way i don't know many penny pinchers who choose supercharged mercs and 3.2litre XJ6's as there modes of transport)
My guess is you are feeling the pinch, the advantage for you in fitting a wet system is financial. it is simple arithmatic, a fully wet system will fill more time, it is fairly well documented that this is the reason heating engineers (some) try to push the wet systems on people, it's a good sale. I expect to experience this once ready for quotes.
I can't wait (not) for the reasons for choosing wet systems, i'm guessing they will be more efficient, better for your health, etc. etc. i'll bet they won't say "because they're more fasionable, and I make more money out of the job" they may tell me it's a parts issue, but this could be equally true for a wet system with so many different types available, quite a few may not be about in a few years ( a previous wet system i had i struggled as the boiler was 15yrs old)(a modern one probably won't last that long).
I still haven't seen any evidence that the wet system has any advantage worthy of the extra 3-4000, you would have more credability if you were honest and said you could make more money out of it.
Is the twin flow thing a combi? i can't run my power showers off of one, can I?
any way time to thrash the xj to work, earn a few extra pennies to pinch
W
wolfman1
missed this one, some vaild points! are heating engineers not plumbers as well?
Also i know virtually nothing apart from what i read, but am a mechanical engineer, i do do some work on boilers, oil fired Cuenod burners.
is room temp not controlled by register opening size which are adjustable, how do you control room temps in wet systems, i've had trv's, but these are not that good plus they stick (my own experience)
wet systems ive had take ages to warm the house? never 15mins, the sytem may be warm after 15 mins but the heat they radiate is really slow (again my experience).
Proper filters should clean the air (claimed) and the system doesn't generate dust (does it?).
Noise transmission, i can see that happening, makes sense, but not heard of anyone complaining about the noise.
Anyone watching changed there warm air for wet because of these reasons?
Sponsored Links
D
Deleted member 105431
wolfman I am not selling anything, I have nothing to gain financially whatever I advise so to say I am "feeling the pinch" is ridiculous. Personally I wouldn't want to work in your house as you appear to be a nightmare customer who wants the job done for nothing.
Just because you drive two cars does not mean you aren't a tightwad, those cars are nothing special either btw.
If wau were that fantastic every home would have one, the fact is they are dying a death so much so that the wau manufacturers are now selling wet boilers.
It's always amusing when a "customer" claims to be more of an expert than the professionals with many years experience and countless qualifications, registrations etc etc. I am also an approved contractor for J&S the biggest wau manufacurer in the uk. (not that there are many)
Just because you drive two cars does not mean you aren't a tightwad, those cars are nothing special either btw.
If wau were that fantastic every home would have one, the fact is they are dying a death so much so that the wau manufacturers are now selling wet boilers.
It's always amusing when a "customer" claims to be more of an expert than the professionals with many years experience and countless qualifications, registrations etc etc. I am also an approved contractor for J&S the biggest wau manufacurer in the uk. (not that there are many)
W
wolfman1
I think you have got me all wrong?
I don't think i claimed anything that wasn't either my experience or possibly a result of some research.
I don't think i claimed anything that wasn't either my experience or possibly a result of some research.
wolfman you stated above you want the most efficiant way of heating, then go for a wet system.
I am glad that you have appreciated the valid points that I have made.
In a wet system the TRV turns the rad on full until the room is warm. Rads warm mostly by convection, not radiation!
In a WAU the vent can be restricted but that slows warmup and does not take into account changes in heat loss such as windows opened, cold winds etc.
Setting a WAU for a particular room temperature is very hit and miss and is not self controlled like a TRV.
There are expensive electrostatic filters but I have never seen one fitted. Users of WAU never bother to clean the filters and all those I have seen are in an appalling state of neglect.
Just because you have never had a properly specified and maintained wet system does not mean that they never work very well.
A plumber works on bathrooms, water supplies and drainage. But thats not really the point. Its that the public perception of plumbers is that they are ignorant and plumbing is all that they can do.
I agree that many plumbers are ignorant but that is not a requirement of the job and some are very well educated.
Cowboys are not particularly plumbers, they include bankers and politicians!
Heating is a much more technically involved subject and those who do it best are usually well qualified.
A client I took out to dinner last week, a lecturer in English, said that I "did not talk like a boiler engineer" !
Tony
W
wolfman1
The point about the properly specified system is probably very true, but here in lies the problem, I have had three houses with radiators (and one with storage heaters! Oh my god!) All installed by heating engineers, you can't blame cost, how much extra would it cost to fit a correctly sized boiler and the correct number of radiators (take your point about convection, but you know what i mean, should call them convectors).
So how do I calculate, to make sure the engineer is properly specifying the system, the rads needed and size of boiler, given that i have been persuaded to at least get some wet quotes.
Eaton said go for the wet system if you want the most efficient, i'm not convinced it is, the calculated efficiency of the boiler is surley only part of the equasion?
I'm really taken with the idea of fitting a/c along with the warm air though!
So how do I calculate, to make sure the engineer is properly specifying the system, the rads needed and size of boiler, given that i have been persuaded to at least get some wet quotes.
Eaton said go for the wet system if you want the most efficient, i'm not convinced it is, the calculated efficiency of the boiler is surley only part of the equasion?
I'm really taken with the idea of fitting a/c along with the warm air though!
You can calculate the heat requirements of each room using one of the calculators available on the internet using the whole house method. Someone will post a link for you.
Eator was probably using the simple defination of efficiency as the ability to heat the roooms rather than the gas in/heat out real efficiency.
Tony
Eator was probably using the simple defination of efficiency as the ability to heat the roooms rather than the gas in/heat out real efficiency.
Tony
D
Deleted member 105431
W
wolfman1
I done a calculation and the wet system is all about the right size as far as i can tell, it's not that it can't heat the house just very slow as i've found with all my wet systems that i've had.
When the J and S man comes around i will be asking about all the points raised here about the disadvantages of the warm air systems, in particular, room temperature control.
Although after much thought, i am suprised that warm air is not more popular, purely from an engineering point of view it makes so much more sense (i state i am not trying to know more than a gas fitter with a million yrs experience).
Yes the system has to be designed correctly (but so does the wet system), but there is less parts (less to go wrong) and the heating is more direct ie you heat the air and blow it into your room, this has to be more effective (not looking for a argument here, just talking out loud).
I think it will be realy hard work convincing me to go the wet way.
When the J and S man comes around i will be asking about all the points raised here about the disadvantages of the warm air systems, in particular, room temperature control.
Although after much thought, i am suprised that warm air is not more popular, purely from an engineering point of view it makes so much more sense (i state i am not trying to know more than a gas fitter with a million yrs experience).
Yes the system has to be designed correctly (but so does the wet system), but there is less parts (less to go wrong) and the heating is more direct ie you heat the air and blow it into your room, this has to be more effective (not looking for a argument here, just talking out loud).
I think it will be realy hard work convincing me to go the wet way.
I don't have any interest whichever you choose.
However, beware those that don't have a warm air gas ticket offering advice. If a customer has enjoyed their warm air system (and plenty have) then I would suggest they replace it - when the time comes - with a new model. Hydronic systems are generally less efficient because you heat air to heat water and then back again.
Fact is, most medium and large buildings are heated by warm air, because it is efficient and comfortable.
However, beware those that don't have a warm air gas ticket offering advice. If a customer has enjoyed their warm air system (and plenty have) then I would suggest they replace it - when the time comes - with a new model. Hydronic systems are generally less efficient because you heat air to heat water and then back again.
Fact is, most medium and large buildings are heated by warm air, because it is efficient and comfortable.
G
GeorgeBramwell
wolfman1, You are right to stick with the WAU. Some people are plumbers and warm-air is outside their field. They are the ones who promote anything with water inside pipes. The modern WHU replacements are a world away from the older ones with top electronic filters and modulating fans. Smart looking registers can be bought. I saw advertised, a roomstat closed up the register grill when a room was hot. The unit, or system, needs an air flow switch to knock off the fan if all are closed. Humidification is easy to add in a WAU. WAU is big in the U.S.A.
There were some copper coil air-handling units available that slot on the plenum chamber, that are heated by a remote boiler. Best check if they are still available. This can be heated by a combi that can maintain a constant temperature, not modulating. Then you have DHW as well, all from the same box.
If not available then a Rinnai or Andrews type of multi-point will do the job for DHW. The Rinnais can be fitted outside, saving space.
All top, very expensive, eco homes have mechanical ventilation and heat recovery units. These are just smaller warm air units. Some have copper coils in them, or small electric elements, to preheat the incoming air. The units do not need to be so big as the houses, with small heat demands, are heavily insulated and pretty well air-tight. Warm air is not obsolete, it is just in another form and name and expanding in the market.
Go for it. It will be cheaper and all the benefits be greater with a new unit.
There were some copper coil air-handling units available that slot on the plenum chamber, that are heated by a remote boiler. Best check if they are still available. This can be heated by a combi that can maintain a constant temperature, not modulating. Then you have DHW as well, all from the same box.
If not available then a Rinnai or Andrews type of multi-point will do the job for DHW. The Rinnais can be fitted outside, saving space.
All top, very expensive, eco homes have mechanical ventilation and heat recovery units. These are just smaller warm air units. Some have copper coils in them, or small electric elements, to preheat the incoming air. The units do not need to be so big as the houses, with small heat demands, are heavily insulated and pretty well air-tight. Warm air is not obsolete, it is just in another form and name and expanding in the market.
Go for it. It will be cheaper and all the benefits be greater with a new unit.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
