Water Softener Woes
- Thread starter TheFew
- Start date
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Can you force a regeneration (Depress the indicator knob on the 440i with a wide-blade screwdriver and turn COUNTERCLOCKWISE to START ) and check to see if the ball in the clear plastic/glass bit (air check) at the back (with the white pipe) moves during the process?
I had a permutit water softener - looks very much the same as what you have where overflow was filling up.
I tried the following:
Replaced all flappy valves. No joy.
Replaced white tube going to the air check (in case of small hole causing water not to be sucked up).
Replaced resin and its container (in case of a small hole letting water back into the brine solution).
In the end while talking to the support guys at permutit i happened to mention that the ball had not gone up in the air check. Turned out the ball had a hole in it, water got in and caused it to weigh more. This in turn resulted in it not rising when the softener was sucking the brine solution up to rinse out the resin, so water never emptied out of the brine tank. The way the ball works is if there is nothing sucking, it seals the bottom opening in the air check. IF brine is being sucked, the ball hovers or is at the top of the air check.
Long and short - i replaced the ball and seal and been working fine ever since.
If it is the controller, consider getting the 460i as a straight replacement, its a bit more economical in that it will regenerate once the softened water is used rather then preset times (assuming you want to get this unit working over replacing the whole set). Looking at the tech document it is exactly the same as the permutit i had from b&q 17 years ago.
I had a permutit water softener - looks very much the same as what you have where overflow was filling up.
I tried the following:
Replaced all flappy valves. No joy.
Replaced white tube going to the air check (in case of small hole causing water not to be sucked up).
Replaced resin and its container (in case of a small hole letting water back into the brine solution).
In the end while talking to the support guys at permutit i happened to mention that the ball had not gone up in the air check. Turned out the ball had a hole in it, water got in and caused it to weigh more. This in turn resulted in it not rising when the softener was sucking the brine solution up to rinse out the resin, so water never emptied out of the brine tank. The way the ball works is if there is nothing sucking, it seals the bottom opening in the air check. IF brine is being sucked, the ball hovers or is at the top of the air check.
Long and short - i replaced the ball and seal and been working fine ever since.
If it is the controller, consider getting the 460i as a straight replacement, its a bit more economical in that it will regenerate once the softened water is used rather then preset times (assuming you want to get this unit working over replacing the whole set). Looking at the tech document it is exactly the same as the permutit i had from b&q 17 years ago.
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Hi again,
I finally got around to doing some further testing on my softener, I am now convinced that the control unit is totally screwed.
So I will replace it, with a more user friendly unit. I will go for one of these, which seems to be a direct replacement: http://www.wrekinwatersofteners.co.uk/wrekinwatersofteners/final.asp?id=473
I took the current control unit off and was hoping to remove the resin tank from the water tank, but it is too big to get out (see below picture)! It seems that the plastic tank may have been molded around the resin tank?!??! So that will make replacing the resin some what awkward.
The resin tank is a 24L tank so does that mean that I need 24L of new resin??
Also, I have been advised in this thread to use a food grade grease for the seals. Any ideas where I can buy that?
Thanks again
TF
I finally got around to doing some further testing on my softener, I am now convinced that the control unit is totally screwed.
So I will replace it, with a more user friendly unit. I will go for one of these, which seems to be a direct replacement: http://www.wrekinwatersofteners.co.uk/wrekinwatersofteners/final.asp?id=473
I took the current control unit off and was hoping to remove the resin tank from the water tank, but it is too big to get out (see below picture)! It seems that the plastic tank may have been molded around the resin tank?!??! So that will make replacing the resin some what awkward.
The resin tank is a 24L tank so does that mean that I need 24L of new resin??
Also, I have been advised in this thread to use a food grade grease for the seals. Any ideas where I can buy that?
Thanks again
TF
Hi I advised food grease go online also check out harveys softeners best on Market no electrics
in my opinion you'd be better off with one of these best of luck ROB
in my opinion you'd be better off with one of these best of luck ROB
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Hi Ive just remembered kenwoods on amazon 100 gram tubes
Rather then replace the whole top unit, maybe worth just changing the clock part?
There is a "timer locking pin" which is directly under the words "Manual Regen" on the timer face. Turn and pull out. This will release just the timer and shaft behind.
Replace with new timer and done.
With the shaft off, you may also be able to check the flap valves and shaft itself for signs of wear and damage.
There is very little to actually go wrong on these units that would cost a lot to replace, so long as you have the will and time to spend on taking it apart and "investigating".
Just from the manual, check page 18, lists some steps to check once you got the unit back together.
There is a "timer locking pin" which is directly under the words "Manual Regen" on the timer face. Turn and pull out. This will release just the timer and shaft behind.
Replace with new timer and done.
With the shaft off, you may also be able to check the flap valves and shaft itself for signs of wear and damage.
There is very little to actually go wrong on these units that would cost a lot to replace, so long as you have the will and time to spend on taking it apart and "investigating".
Just from the manual, check page 18, lists some steps to check once you got the unit back together.
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I did think about that, but a few websites I looked at suggest that the part in question has not been manufactured since late 2011. So I decided it would just be easier to upgrade to a digital system, and £280 delivered for a new control unit did not seem that bad.
I just need to work out if a tank size of 24L means I need 24L of new resin, or if I should just stick with the resin I have (it may be 10 or so years old, judging by how long the previous owners lived here)..
Thanks
Just to close this thread. I final upgraded the heard unit to an Autotrol 740. I did not replace the resin as visually it looked ok. The unti is now installed and seems to be working. All in all, not as hard as it seemed at first glance. Thanks again for all of the advice.
Also need to factor the installation costs. Whilst i may be able to replace like for like, installing a completely new system may be beyond my skills.
I also needed the cheapest option in the short term as i need to save the pennies to get some damp issues resolve!
I also needed the cheapest option in the short term as i need to save the pennies to get some damp issues resolve!
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