What are you watching on TV right now?

[Dork Lard]

It was Jackanory that gave me my love of books, specifically the Willie Rushton & Bernard Cribbins era. It was listening to Charlie & The Chocolate Factory that made me want to be able to read well above my level at the time.

I'm currently re-reading all of Bernard Cornwell's stuff inbetween the odd history book.

 

[ajohn]

I'm currently re-reading all of Bernard Cornwell's stuff inbetween the odd history book.

I've read a lot of that. Have you tried any of Follet's? He switched to history.

TV wise I have been watching the history of Britain series, bbc. It goes back ~6,000 years. Spotted a bit of contradiction about when farming started but that may be little against big time.

Iron age next. If I miss it I watch on iPlayer.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

TV wise I have been watching the history of Britain series, bbc. It goes back ~6,000 years. Spotted a bit of contradiction about when farming started but that may be little against big time.

There have been several suggestions recently that our understanding of ancient history may be wrong and that many advances happened long before first thought.

 

[ajohn]

There have been several suggestions recently that our understanding of ancient history may be wrong and that many advances happened long before first thought.

The guy that does the series has a Celtic bend that I feel shows every now and again but good reporting anyway. It's an interesting run down and probably better than some traditional views. Some items used just don't last long enough for us to know about a number of aspects unless some trace or the other happens to be found at some point.

I just checked one aspect - copper mines. He suggested that all of the copper in the bronze age came from Ireland. Just checked - not so. LOL The way it was presented could be read that way.

 

[Dork Lard]

I've read a lot of that. Have you tried any of Follet's? He switched to history.

TV wise I have been watching the history of Britain series, bbc. It goes back ~6,000 years. Spotted a bit of contradiction about when farming started but that may be little against big time.

Not tried any Ken Follett. I was told to read Cornwell by a mutual aquaintance who knows him well & thought I'd take to his style.

My specialist area of history is the English Longbow, on which my real world persona is a respected & leading authority ! Yes, another DiyNot fantasy of mine is the many hours I spent discussing longbows with Robert Hardy & helping to destroy the established historians & prove to the world that the longbow draw weight was as much as 180-190lbs.

 

[Mottie]

 

[ajohn]

prove to the world that the longbow draw weight was as much as 180-190lbs.

I for various reason thought there would be a range of draw weights and given extended practice just like weight lifting the max might surprise some. A modern archery friend disagrees also on reliable ways of aiming them.

I have similar thoughts about the weights of swords that some feel could only be for ceremonial purposes as far too heavy to use.

Follet's history is far more recent other than stone work related and those have to be a bit fictional. The Century Trilogy is well researched. Rather thick too.

 

[Dork Lard]

I for various reason thought there would be a range of draw weights and given extended practice just like weight lifting the max might surprise some. A modern archery friend disagrees also on reliable ways of aiming them.

The history I read as a child said the English Longbow had a draw weight of approx 130-140lbs. I thought this rather strange at the time 'cos the longbow my gramps made was at least 160lbs . . . . My current best bow is 165lbs, but it's fast approaching the end of its useful life. I have a stave ageing which I hope will turn out to be 180lbs+

The medieval bowman would have owned several bows of varying weights & several arrows for every purpose.

I can count on one hand the number of people whose opinions I respect on this subject & we get together at least 2x a year. <wipes tear> & we all dearly miss Siegried.

 

[Dork Lard]

A modern archery friend disagrees also on reliable ways of aiming them.

One simply does not 'aim' a longbow at these high weights, they were used purely for range.

Incidentally & purely for the non believers, using a tool that relies solely on human muscle power.

Do you think a golf club can hit a golf ball further than a longbow can loose an arrow???

Before you reach your conclusions, please consider how many weapons in history have ever resembled golf balls.

 

[Odds]

The guy that does the series has a Celtic bend that I feel shows every now and again but good reporting anyway. It's an interesting run down and probably better than some traditional views. Some items used just don't last long enough for us to know about a number of aspects unless some trace or the other happens to be found at some point.

I just checked one aspect - copper mines. He suggested that all of the copper in the bronze age came from Ireland. Just checked - not so. LOL The way it was presented could be read that way.

A great deal of copper ore was mined in and around Great Orme Head at Llandudno during the Bronze Age. Even back to Neolithic times, miners would dig through the rock for quality flint using antler picks by rushlight. Truly terrifying in such a cramped space. Rudimentary tools and a prayer to the Gods were all that stood between you and eternity.

There's a 'copper' mountain in North Wales, too, where so much copper ore was mined during the 19th century that it set the world price.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

There's a 'copper' mountain in North Wales, too, where so much copper ore was mined during the 19th century that it set the world price.

That is in north of the isle of Anglesey, near Amlwch - proper name Parys Mountain, local name Copper Mountain. It's like a moonscape.

The copper went to 'copper bottom' wooden ships, to help keep marine life off and worms from damaging them.

 

[Odds]

One simply does not 'aim' a longbow at these high weights, they were used purely for range.

Incidentally & purely for the non believers, using a tool that relies solely on human muscle power.

Do you think a golf club can hit a golf ball further than a longbow can loose an arrow???

Before you reach your conclusions, please consider how many weapons in history have ever resembled golf balls.

That's a good q. and i'd guess an arrow could fly further...i dimly recall a programme on the BeeB, many years ago now, where Robert Hardy demonstrated the power of a longbow. Bit of a surprise to me since the last time i'd seen him he was elbow-deep in a cow.
I read how Longbows were even considered for use by Wellington as Flintlocks were so unreliable and didn't have the accuracy or the range of a longbow. Obviously, they didn't follow through with the idea (when they sobered up in the morning, probably) but it'd be fun to think of the French Imperial Guard's reaction to a hail of those things raining death down on them. "Mon Dieu, eet ees Azincourt all over again!"

Once your done with Bernard Cornwell, i recommend Robert Holmes military histories.

 

[ajohn]

I think there would be competitive types around even when long bows were used. That will include range and accuracy. It's human nature. The friend I mentioned denies this as well

The original draw forces of examples from the Mary Rose are estimated by Robert Hardy at 150–160 lbf (670–710 N) at a 30-inch (76.2 cm) draw length; the full range of draw weights was between 100–185 lbf (440–820 N).[8] The 30-inch (76.2 cm) draw length was used because that is the length allowed by the arrows commonly found on the Mary Rose.

If anyone does something that needs strength their strength will increase with use. That I would suspect is the problem with a long bow as against some sort of gun.

Personally I'd add another factor. Things forgotten that may have been done when they were made and maintained. This happens in some areas.

Golf balls - the dimples do make them fly further.

 

[Dork Lard]

It used to be law that an able bodied man practiced his archery skills weekly, actually it still is just no longer enforced !

Many years ago I picked a mate up to go meet others of our kind & just as he was chucking his bows in the boot a police car passed by. 1/2ml down the road he was waiting & pulled us in. I agreed with him that they are offensive weapons but challenged him on his own practice regime & knowledge of the law. A few hours later he's off duty, joined us at the butts & my mate is teaching him how to loose a bodkin from a 130lb'r. That copper retired a sergeant & for many years voluntary ran the site of our archery club.

Practice was almost always done to coincide with the church. Sunday afternoons were not spent in t'pub in them days & most historians accept that where there is a 'Butts Lane' near an old church then that marks the commoners field where the archers gathered to practice after church. Most times they are wrong, & the Victorian historians are mostly to blame for this. A lot of those archery fields are utter nonsense. Dork knows what is needed from a field in order to practice archery & Dork often visits these old church's in old villages & walks around briefly before identifyng where they really practiced.

I have a collection of over 300 medieval arrow heads that I've dug up from the earth just beyond those butts.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If anyone does something that needs strength their strength will increase with use.

They were able differentiate the professions of some of the skeletal remains on the Rose, even whether they were left or right handed, by the muscle attachment points on the skeletons found. The more developed the muscle, the more developed the attachments to the skeleton and the more the bones develop.