What do you believe "money" is?

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Aquaheat

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As the title, but it was cluttering up a thread.

What do people think that money actually is? Has anyone ever held any real money?

With the semi introduction of a "cashless" society then how could that work if your cash has value?

How much is your "cash" worth? Who controls that?

Is it not a series of 1's and 0's that really mean nothing?

I would suggest you go back to where "cash" was created. Not currency which I believe is what noseall was on about as currency transcended every continent and person.

Cash was created by a singular family IIRC that forced a government into a debt that would be impossible to exit from and that will always trickle down to the peasants.

It's been this way in history, in medieval times families were forced to pay a tax to the land owner to cover his tax from the estate owner and upwards to those that didn't need it.

Now I'll put my tin hat on and await!

Jon
 
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Put it this way,

if you could hack into your bank's computer system - completely undetected - then you would be "rich" when all that has changed is a number in your account.

Cash is just bits of paper for an amount that the bank reduces your number.
 
Cash, tokens, vouchers, credit. They all amount to the same thing. It's a promise that the holder of such will be afforded their value.

Inflation can reduce the worth of such items depending upon the financial well being of the country from which the credit item originated.

The cyber economy has meant that cash has become ever more redundant. We trade more differently now than we ever have done.

A post apocalyptic world would allow those in possession of valued goods and services to trade for things that they require. Those in possession of the greatest number of items required by the largest number of people will flourish. And so we start again.....

Supply and demand creates the value of goods or services as does the need to survive.
 
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Technically I suppose it's an iou that can be exchanged over and over again between an unending number of people without having to physically move material goods around .
On practical terms it's a useful tool to appropriate a value to something . For example when bartering one has to have an idea of value for each side so they both feel the trade is benifical even when goods traded are of differing uses or needs. A can of beans will keep me alive for the day but does that mean it's worth a days pay or a car tyre might last 20,000 miles , is that worth a much as the time it would take me to walk that distance? No of course not , at least not at the moment. I've worked , and still do at times , in the barter economy and tend to look at how much I would charge for something ( in pounds and pence) and equate that against the "value" of what I've been offered. Recent example was I made and traded a chair and chest for clothes for myself and my daughter. We could have done the exchange with money , firstly me getting paid then using that money to purchase the clothes but in this case it was far easier to do a straight transaction.
Money does have one unique feature though , in that it can be loaned into exsistence . A bank can promise to loan you money and that money thus becomes real and your debt is then viewed as an asset of that bank all without anything physical being created . I just don't think Heinz can promise a tin of beans and have it suddenly appear out of thin air.
 
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I guess put simply it is a derivative. In other words a financial imstrument that represents an underlying asset class (es) which in this case would be goods and services.
 
ladylola said:
Money does have one unique feature though , in that it can be loaned into exsistence.
Click to expand...

Money can be loaned into existence, value cannot. When Money is a measure of value (AKA the answer to the supply/demand balance) but a bank magics up more money, it's just more units of money set against the same value. So the money becomes increasingly worth less as the people that use the money know each constituent unit of money is worth less, so they ask for more units to make up the same value.

Hey presto, inflation.

Give everyone £400 a month for free, the same thing happens. If EVERYONE has an extra £400 of tradeable value in their pocket; then no-one does - the value of the first £400 in everyones pocket is worthless, as no-one worked to achieve it.

Nozzle
 
Fiat money doesn't exist, it's created on a computer screen.

It's still surprising how many people I've spoken to that think there is some giant vault somewhere where all the cash is stored. Either that or they have no clue whatsoever.

When it comes to loans for example the debt is created when you take out the loan, the money didn't exist until you borrowed it. Likewise you cannot owe what you never promised to pay and this is where the system is beginning to crack apart, because people have realised for things like council tax there is a consent required, and without the consent there is no contract and without the contract there is no debt. 'Debt' is defined as a 'promise to pay' so really for a debtor to be in debt they have to have promised to pay at some point, and defaulted on that promise.

Of course the government could never left it slip that tax is actually voltuntary, and so they employ all sorts of mechanisms to gain power and compliance over the people, even putting them in prison by using fraudlent paperwork, kangeroo courts, threats and intimidation via third party intelopers, a long list of things. The money system is by default fraud because the money you use and/or borrow doesn't even exist.
 
HawkEye244 said:
Fiat money doesn't exist, it's created on a computer screen.

It's still surprising how many people I've spoken to that think there is some giant vault somewhere where all the cash is stored. Either that or they have no clue whatsoever.

When it comes to loans for example the debt is created when you take out the loan, the money didn't exist until you borrowed it. Likewise you cannot owe what you never promised to pay and this is where the system is beginning to crack apart, because people have realised for things like council tax there is a consent required, and without the consent there is no contract and without the contract there is no debt. 'Debt' is defined as a 'promise to pay' so really for a debtor to be in debt they have to have promised to pay at some point, and defaulted on that promise.

Of course the government could never left it slip that tax is actually voltuntary, and so they employ all sorts of mechanisms to gain power and compliance over the people, even putting them in prison by using fraudlent paperwork, kangeroo courts, threats and intimidation via third party intelopers, a long list of things. The money system is by default fraud because the money you use and/or borrow doesn't even exist.
Click to expand...

Are you an anarchist as how can you hold such views (which I don't disagree with) and support the Tories as they are first and foremost the party of the bankers who benefit from the system you have aptly described above.

You are a strange one Hawk.:mrgreen:
 
Kankerot said:
Are you an anarchist as how can you hold such views (which I don't disagree with) and support the Tories as they are first and foremost the party of the bankers who benefit from the system you have aptly described above.

You are a strange one Hawk.:mrgreen:
Click to expand...

What do you mean hold such views? It's information I've picked up over the years, it's based on evidence and fact, perspective doesn't really come into it..

Also it's evident that the original poster and other's commenting in the thread are clued on on what money really is, so I'm so sure why you have a problem with my post.
 
Some people like to recognise fair play and pay their dues. Others like to shirk it, and with any luck they will pay it back by community service hours instead. Either way, value is traded.

Nozzle
 
If you think about it future generations will have debt up to their eye balls that wasn't their debt it was ours, and our parents. There are children born into countries that will never repay the debts they owe, because money lenders would much rather have nations in debt, living and working to pay them to do... nothing ??
 
HawkEye244 said:
If you think about it future generations will have debt up to their eye balls that wasn't their debt it was ours, and our parents. There are children born into countries that will never repay the debts they owe, because money lenders would much rather have nations in debt, living and working to pay them to do... nothing ??
Click to expand...
I agree with that post.
If the powers that be decide the situation is hopeless then they will move the number to a different column, marked written off, and all will be well and nothing will change - but as for your other post, it's a job to know where to start.

The rules for money, like the law, are made by those in charge who are allowed to do it by virtue of one system or another.

If you do not abide by the rules - for money or the law - then those in charge are authorised to punish you for your behaviour.

Sometimes enough people kick up a fuss (poll tax) that the rulers change their mind and alter the rules.
You cannot stand against them alone arguing that you didn't promise to abide.

In primitive societies you may even be punished for openly disagreeing with the rules.
This may be called treason by miltary dictatorships or blasphemy by spiritual dictatorships.

In our western democracies you are allowed to say what you want about the system; the difference is, no one takes any notice.
 
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